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View Full Version : Why aren't SA schools performing better?



robt
04-18-2012, 12:32 PM
A trend had emerged in SA and abroad whereby more children were attending schools. Despite this, "they are not learning ", Mr Dikotla says in motivating for the new global focus.

The government’s commitment to education has seen access of seven to 14-year-olds to primary schooling rise to almost 100%, and the government has committed what will amount to more than R5-bn to the South African Literacy Programme, which aims for basic literacy for 4,7-million adults.

Despite this, last year’s Annual National Assessments saw 69% of grade 3 pupils not achieve, or only partially achieve, the required level of literacy for that grade. Also, SA performed at or near the bottom of virtually every global and regional ranking of literacy in which it participated. In light of these figures, the Department of Basic Education has expressed its intention of moving to an outputs-based rather than inputs-based approach to education.

http://business.iafrica.com/businessday/789818.html

Personally I think Outcoms Based Education has been a failure from start to finish. Add the problem of these inflated results (kids getting numerous distinctions - makes me question what an 'A' is worth these days) and you've got a bit of a problem.

Plus I heard the other day that 35% now qualifies for a pass. How little must you know to get 35%?

So you've got average kids who think they are mini-Einsteins because they got a few 'A's walking around and then children who can barely read but still have a matric thinking they are employable.

Mr Dikotla hit the nail on the head when he says they are not learning - and there's no fudging those results.

McT
04-18-2012, 01:36 PM
I also the question of parents about how much time they are actively personally investing in their children's education. I get the feeling from some that they are leaving it to the school/teachers to the job alone. I would say that this is part of the recipe for disaster.

Dragon_Void
04-18-2012, 02:09 PM
I suspect the problem is the fact that there is no motivation in schools. Teacher goes to work, kid goes to school, not one of them enjoys it, teacher strikes, pulps loves it, as he doesn't have to do anything. The key is to rethink education, set the goals higher, 70% to get into university, that will make pulps study again.

robt
04-20-2012, 02:21 PM
I also the question of parents about how much time they are actively personally investing in their children's education. I get the feeling from some that they are leaving it to the school/teachers to the job alone. I would say that this is part of the recipe for disaster.

Sad but true. And you can't blame the parents entirely as things have become very expensive at least in the cities. So both parents work and there's just no time or energy for child rearing.

I sometimes wonder if we need as much money as we think we need? Could some people perhaps drop their living standards a bit so the mom can stay at home and look after the kids?

robt
04-20-2012, 02:24 PM
I suspect the problem is the fact that there is no motivation in schools. Teacher goes to work, kid goes to school, not one of them enjoys it, teacher strikes, pulps loves it, as he doesn't have to do anything. The key is to rethink education, set the goals higher, 70% to get into university, that will make pulps study again.

But school was never there to be enjoyed :D.

I loved break times but school work was damn hard. But it taught me that not everything in life is fun and games. When you work it's sometimes hard, sometimes horrid, sometimes fun but you have to push through. And then the reward lies at the end of it.

I say we have to make school harder but teach our kids to have character. Things come too easy these days so we're breeding a bunch of pansies.

Agree with you 100% - make it harder to get into University.

mercurial
04-20-2012, 11:58 PM
We need to set higher standards. 35% is not on. That should be 50% at the very least. We also need proper and quality education. We need to inspire great teachers and they will in turn inspire their students.

McT
04-21-2012, 09:31 PM
To qualify what I said earlier about parents investing in the education if their children, it's more than just money. It is time and involvement too. Although my daughter's homework is done with her at aftercare, we still go through it with her, and take time to do revision. Whilst she may have good teachers, I cannot leave it to them alone.

robt
05-09-2012, 02:41 PM
We need to set higher standards. 35% is not on. That should be 50% at the very least. We also need proper and quality education. We need to inspire great teachers and they will in turn inspire their students.

Agreed, 35% is very low.

The trick though, if you up the pass rate to 50%, is to keep the work and exams the same. I suspect teachers will have to start to dumb down the system even more to be able to show the results that the Dept of Education wants to see.

robt
05-09-2012, 02:42 PM
To qualify what I said earlier about parents investing in the education if their children, it's more than just money. It is time and involvement too. Although my daughter's homework is done with her at aftercare, we still go through it with her, and take time to do revision. Whilst she may have good teachers, I cannot leave it to them alone.

Absolutely - kids need to have their parents involved in their lives. There's no one who can take your place or act as a suitable substitute. Especially not a teacher who has 30 other kids in front of her.

Khanya
05-14-2012, 11:55 AM
The children themselves; they're just given too much these days and do not have values people use to have.

But of course you will get your odd school boys/girls who still maintain that goo spirit in spite of peers.

skimread
05-14-2012, 06:19 PM
Government it to blame. Teenage girls can get a child subsidy if they fall pregnant and give birth.

Tpex
05-14-2012, 07:07 PM
Its so ironic, we get pushed through school with some many chances etc. then get to university where the workload quadruples and the pass rate is 50%

McT
05-14-2012, 07:51 PM
Absolutely - kids need to have their parents involved in their lives. There's no one who can take your place or act as a suitable substitute. Especially not a teacher who has 30 other kids in front of her.

35 to 40 kids seems to be the norm. Scary. My daughter is okay in this environment (gr3) and is doing well, but often tells us how several are struggling. Last report advised that she is quite quick in picking up new things and often helps some around her.

If parents aren't involved, kids today are doomed.


Its so ironic, we get pushed through school with some many chances etc. then get to university where the workload quadruples and the pass rate is 50%

Pushed through...are you serious? Glad I finished my schooling ages back in a time when the education system was still worth something.

Dragon_Void
05-15-2012, 07:42 AM
35 to 40 kids seems to be the norm. Scary. My daughter is okay in this environment (gr3) and is doing well, but often tells us how several are struggling. Last report advised that she is quite quick in picking up new things and often helps some around her.

If parents aren't involved, kids today are doomed.

The big classes doesn't bother a child, that is only used as an excuse if they fail. But in reality, big classes like that gives children more time to speak with each other, meaning the work is being ignored.


If parents aren't involved, kids today are doomed.
This. I can't agree more. Today's generation (If that is what it is called) are only worried about parties, booze and stuff like that.

I say, bring punishment back, kids will never learn if they have to go sit in a class for an hour "reading" a book. Treat them like kids if they make trouble, or bunk. Teach them the importance of an education. At this stage the jobless rate looks like it is, because most of said people are just people that came out of school without any experience or qualifications, and that doesn't count in your favour at all.

Where I am drifting to with this is, educate the people, that will decrease the jobless rate a little bit.

robt
05-16-2012, 02:47 PM
Government it to blame. Teenage girls can get a child subsidy if they fall pregnant and give birth.

I also think this type of system exacerbates the problem. Always thought it was a laugh when I read about how you got paid for being pregnant/single mom in the UK.

But now we are in the same boat.

Just not sure what the answer is because it's harsh to leave a young, single mom to fend for herself.

ngadao08
05-17-2012, 03:05 PM
Easy,

1. The teachers
2. Low Income for teachers
3. The distractions learners face (drugs, porn, sex, etc)

Merenwenrago
05-17-2012, 03:09 PM
http://business.iafrica.com/businessday/789818.html

Personally I think Outcoms Based Education has been a failure from start to finish. Add the problem of these inflated results (kids getting numerous distinctions - makes me question what an 'A' is worth these days) and you've got a bit of a problem.

Plus I heard the other day that 35% now qualifies for a pass. How little must you know to get 35%?

So you've got average kids who think they are mini-Einsteins because they got a few 'A's walking around and then children who can barely read but still have a matric thinking they are employable.

Mr Dikotla hit the nail on the head when he says they are not learning - and there's no fudging those results.

I got 35% for maths/science years ago and knew the stuff from books but the questions weren't even about anything I learnt from the books or from teachers.

So question is why aren't we getting taught the stuff relevant to the matric exams, maybe they want people to thumb-suck answers

I was getting A's in Junior School and when I got to highschool there wasn't any bridging so will affect people in matric.

waynegohl
05-17-2012, 04:17 PM
The school system now is a real joke. Some kids obviously do not want to be there and they are the ones who disrupt classes. The lack of any sort of real punishment is another factor kids/schools are the way they are and they may as well just close down schools and open up printing places to just print out diplomas etc because they are just pushing kids through the system these days.
When government cannot build schools or even fix schools up and supply text books then you know this country is falling apart. Some teachers are there because it's a job and not because it's what they wanted to do or a calling so they don't give a damn about your childs education all they want is their salary at the end of the day.

noxibox
05-18-2012, 07:32 PM
http://business.iafrica.com/businessday/789818.html

Personally I think Outcoms Based Education has been a failure from start to finish.
It was a failure before it started. I'm still wondering who convinced the decision-makers that it was a good idea. I have a lot of criticism for the old way of teaching as it has many deficiencies, but a radical change was not the best move given our situation. And certainly not to something that was already widely discredited at the time.


Plus I heard the other day that 35% now qualifies for a pass. How little must you know to get 35%?
This comes up all the time. It was a pass in the old NP days too.

noxibox
05-18-2012, 08:07 PM
The school system now is a real joke. Some kids obviously do not want to be there and they are the ones who disrupt classes. The lack of any sort of real punishment is another factor kids/schools are the way they are and they may as well just close down schools and open up printing places to just print out diplomas etc because they are just pushing kids through the system these days.
There isn't really any punishment, other than simply expelling them, that would be effective with those type of students


Some teachers are there because it's a job and not because it's what they wanted to do or a calling so they don't give a damn about your childs education all they want is their salary at the end of the day.
Being a calling is not good enough. We had a few totally inept and incompetent teachers who were totally in love with the idea of being teachers. I'd rather have people who see it as a job and do it competently.


I was getting A's in Junior School and when I got to highschool there wasn't any bridging so will affect people in matric.
Same ridiculous chasm exists between high school and university.


3. The distractions learners face (drugs, porn, sex, etc)
Nonsense, those are just convenient scapegoats.


The big classes doesn't bother a child, that is only used as an excuse if they fail. But in reality, big classes like that gives children more time to speak with each other, meaning the work is being ignored.
It's not about whether a child is comfortable or uncomfortable in a big group. Simple fact is that the bigger the class the less the teacher can give individual attention where it is needed.


This. I can't agree more. Today's generation (If that is what it is called) are only worried about parties, booze and stuff like that.
Funny they said the same thing about my generation, and my parents' generation.


I say, bring punishment back, kids will never learn if they have to go sit in a class for an hour "reading" a book.
Punishment? And how is it an improvement over reading a book for an hour?


If parents aren't involved, kids today are doomed.
Many of these parents are themselves only poorly educated. We can't rely on the parents.

Dragon_Void
05-19-2012, 08:35 PM
There isn't really any punishment, other than simply expelling them, that would be effective with those type of students


Punishment? And how is it an improvement over reading a book for an hour?
Punishment will actually teach them a lesson, unlike expelling them where they get a 5 day vacation (any kid will accept it). If the bunk, let them do public service after school (or on weekends), just to let them see how important education is (Most of the pulps are under the impression that it is easy to get a job, even if they have a St.10 (Grade 12) certificate). Some schools has a program to help the needy with Food, let them help out there after school for an hour.


It's not about whether a child is comfortable or uncomfortable in a big group. Simple fact is that the bigger the class the less the teacher can give individual attention where it is needed.
At 18/19 years old, I'd think a pulp (Can't be kids anymore?) would understand that they are grown ups, they won't get am much individual attention as they did in Primary school. If they have a problem, what wrong with asking the teacher, or even talking to a teacher? They are after all not super heroes, they can't just sniff out if a pulp is having problems with the work.


Funny they said the same thing about my generation, and my parents' generation.
When last were you at a school? I was at a school two years ago, and it was one sad joke. Almost like the parents has absolutely no control over their kids. Bunking the last few classes (Mathematics) just to go to a party (also called a houza? or how ever it is spelled.).

noxibox
05-22-2012, 06:15 PM
At 18/19 years old, I'd think a pulp (Can't be kids anymore?) would understand that they are grown ups, they won't get am much individual attention as they did in Primary school.
The big classes exist from grade 1 on. Regardless of age where is the teacher to find the time to help 40-50 students when it was already a challenge to give sufficient time to 30?


If they have a problem, what wrong with asking the teacher, or even talking to a teacher? They are after all not super heroes, they can't just sniff out if a pulp is having problems with the work.
How does any of that address a teacher having only so much time and attention available?


When last were you at a school? I was at a school two years ago, and it was one sad joke. Almost like the parents has absolutely no control over their kids. Bunking the last few classes (Mathematics) just to go to a party (also called a houza? or how ever it is spelled.).
Your little lament about the state of the youth remains a trope trotted out generation after generation. And regardless of the supposedly poor state of the youth good schools remain good.


Punishment will actually teach them a lesson, unlike expelling them where they get a 5 day vacation (any kid will accept it). If the bunk, let them do public service after school (or on weekends)
A student who persistently disrupts classes and doesn't pay any attention to the teacher is going to turn up for this community service?