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John
01-21-2012, 07:18 PM
I have encountered white people who resent broad-based black economic empowerment (BBBEE) and say “BBBEE is destroying white people’s opportunities”. They would experience some anger, and perhaps sadness, when they think this. I would like to challenge this conviction through a process of enquiry, using Byron Katie’s four questions and turn-arounds.

Is it true BBBEE has destroyed opportunities for white people in South Africa?

Yes, would be the immediate answer when you look at employment equity practices that do not allow white people to even apply for jobs already reserved for equity candidates. Solidarity trade union’s recent challenge of a municipality, where a white employee was excluded from the application process, seems to highlight the prevalence of the practice of exclusion from the employment equity process.

http://www.iol.co.za/business/opinion/columnists/the-benefits-of-bbbee-for-whites-1.1182050

Racist BEE is failing

I was interested to read the two thoughtful articles written by Jacob Dlamini and Moeletsi Mbeki on race and wealth creation respectively (Wealth creation: Only a matter of time before the hand grenade explodes; and Finding a way out of our age-old racial muddle, February 10). Both of these authors touch on black economic empowerment (BEE) and describe it as a "dead end", as well as detailing many of the negative consequences of this policy.

These thoughts are in line with the Malaysian experience and about which we were warned by an erstwhile Malaysian prime minister in the late 1990s. Unfortunately neither author offers a solution, preferring to allude to university research on the one hand and a somewhat vague call to develop and support entrepreneurs on the other.

The nettle that neither author was willing to grasp is that BEE as currently implemented is racist. Racist policies have over the ages of human history all failed, not only because they are morally wrong but also because they ignore merit, which is a fundamental colour-blind force in human progress. I am driven to ask how any rational person can believe that we can build a prosperous and harmonious nonracial SA by continually allocating jobs and resources based on skin colour.

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=134256

mercurial
01-22-2012, 12:53 AM
Agreed. The idea and purpose of BEE is correct but its implementation is woefully incorrect.

tniland
01-23-2012, 02:44 PM
Its this woefully inadequate implementation of BEE that, in many ways, gives the likes of Malema the opportunity to become demigods. So not only does it fail its principle objective but has a very detrimental effect on South Africa in many other ways.

noxibox
01-23-2012, 03:23 PM
The nettle that neither author was willing to grasp is that BEE as currently implemented is racist. Racist policies have over the ages of human history all failed, not only because they are morally wrong but also because they ignore merit, which is a fundamental colour-blind force in human progress. I am driven to ask how any rational person can believe that we can build a prosperous and harmonious nonracial SA by continually allocating jobs and resources based on skin colour.

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=134256
Even without affirmative action and BEE it is naive to believe that hiring and allocation of contracts would be based on merit. On the face of it a business would obviously hire the best candidate or award a contract to the best outside contractor, but businesses don't necessarily make rational choices because people don't.

Affirmative action is causing issues in South Africa because you cannot simply allocate a certain number of jobs to black people when there are insufficient suitable candidates. On the other hand you need to give employers some sort of incentive, carrot or stick, to take on some less qualified candidates who will learn and advance.

BEE is a failure because it isn't broad-based, but simply passing money onto the already connected.

WPD
01-23-2012, 07:31 PM
BEE is a failure because it isn't broad-based, but simply passing money onto the already connected.

+1

Apart from the fact that BEE does nothing for the bulk of the intended beneficiaries, it is (and few people will say this aloud) a racist policy.

How do you recovery from a racist regime by implementing racists policies? :confused::confused::confused:

mercurial
01-23-2012, 08:16 PM
I don't think it is a racist policy. I think the intention was good... to give others employment, a chance to improve in the real world and to gain experience, where previously they would not have had. It's the implementation of it that's the problem. Companies have seen it as an excuse to perform reverse-Apartheid. If it was implemented the way it should, it would have worked well, but this is SA... very few things that the government does is ever really done with good intentions and implementation.

realbigdreamer
01-24-2012, 08:46 AM
I don't think it is a racist policy. I think the intention was good... to give others employment, a chance to improve in the real world and to gain experience, where previously they would not have had. It's the implementation of it that's the problem. Companies have seen it as an excuse to perform reverse-Apartheid. If it was implemented the way it should, it would have worked well, but this is SA... very few things that the government does is ever really done with good intentions and implementation.

You make a fair point and I agree, but I would say it is a racist policy. ANY policy that is aimed at only one color is almost definitely a racist policy, how can it not be? If you cannot get a job because of your color, you are being discriminated against. And if the best person (NOT saying white person, just a scenario) does not get the job, the business will only suffer.

Yes, it has given jobs to many black people, but I still don't see it as a good policy. The government should come up with something that doesn't effect white people like this. Easier said than done, I know.

mercurial
01-24-2012, 08:53 AM
You make a fair point and I agree, but I would say it is a racist policy. ANY policy that is aimed at only one color is almost definitely a racist policy, how can it not be? If you cannot get a job because of your color, you are being discriminated against. And if the best person (NOT saying white person, just a scenario) does not get the job, the business will only suffer.

Yes, it has given jobs to many black people, but I still don't see it as a good policy. The government should come up with something that doesn't effect white people like this. Easier said than done, I know.

Fair points. I agree to a certain degree :)

williamsw
01-24-2012, 12:02 PM
Any policy that discriminates in respect of race is, by definition, a racist policy. The better approach would be BBEE, or BROAD BASED ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT, an initiative aimed at uplifting all people.

The starting point should really be focussing more on ensuring that everyone is afforded the same opportunities for education. This is the only way that the playing field can be levelled fairly. The next step would be to put incentives into place that encourage business startups, business growth and employment of the best candidates, regardless of colour. This would serve to improve the economy as a whole and reduce unemployment. When there are enough jobs in the marketplace, race will no longer be relevant.

There will always be racist people and this is not something that is unique to South Africa. However, by implementing colourblind policies, the government will remove many of the justifications that these people use and eventually make them irrelevant.

stroebs
01-24-2012, 12:59 PM
The problem with the implementation of BEE is that many of the candidates who are replacing or being placed in the positions reserved for equity have not climbed the ladder to get to that specific job title. While it is all good and well to create equity, BEE skips the normal job progression procedure and puts someone in charge of a position which has many fundamental aspects of a company below it which they might not understand or might not have experienced. This experience or understanding is crucial to have a skilled businessman or woman.

PsyCLown
01-24-2012, 08:45 PM
I was hoping to get a list of points as to the benefits of BBBEE for whites, although I did not get that....
Unless I am required to click on the links and read the long article. I am rather disappointed.

Instead there is a thread which may quite easily and quickly turn into a flame war if users who are unable to control themselves come along and decide to join in.

I am personally not the biggest fan of BBBEE or even BEE.
I agree with realbigdreamer.

mercurial
01-24-2012, 10:39 PM
All fair points but what is the likelihood that that will happen? Perhaps only if we get rid of the ANC :p

tatjanochka
01-25-2012, 11:24 AM
Could not agree more with main article. I saw it as soon I come over to South Africa. It is obvious that racism here is flourishing because of wrong implementations of law. Lets hope it will change soon.

realbigdreamer
01-25-2012, 01:07 PM
I was hoping to get a list of points as to the benefits of BBBEE for whites, although I did not get that....
Unless I am required to click on the links and read the long article. I am rather disappointed.

Instead there is a thread which may quite easily and quickly turn into a flame war if users who are unable to control themselves come along and decide to join in.

I am personally not the biggest fan of BBBEE or even BEE.
I agree with realbigdreamer.

Glad you agreed. :)

As to the benefits of BBBEE for white people-> They can spend more time at home with their families. :D

I really don't see any other benefits to be honest. I think if the government could have better control over implementations of the law, things would be a lot better. As another user mentioned, the sudden move of an employee to a much higher position, without going through the normal route is only dangerous.

HavocXphere
01-29-2012, 11:29 PM
I understand the reasons why BBBEE is necessary & if properly done support it, but to pretend it somehow benefits white people is pure bullsht.

The article follows a completely deluded line of reasoning:

Take 2 possible projects:
Project A: 10m profit
Project B: 5m profit

Given a free choice, everyone picks project A. Now legal restriction tell you you can't do Option A and are forced to pick B. Author proceeds to tell you that the artificial restrictions actually benefited you...since you just got 5m profit. Yay! While completely ignoring the fact that the benefits were not created by the restrictions....if anything the benefits received were reduced.

The author provides 2 variations of this:


Firstly, BBBEE has brought value to unlisted companies’ white shareholders. Before BBBEE, there were no wholesale opportunities to value their unlisted businesses and bring some level of liquidity to their shares. By selling to black partners,
No.

Benefit: Selling shares improves liquidity.
Restriction: Sell to black people only.
Advantage created: None. The benefit is created regardless of the person you sell to.
Disadvantage created: The restriction forces you to sell to people who may not have money so the shares must be priced lower than the would be on the open market. Every time you issue shares below the prevailing open market value you dilute the value of existing shares. i.e. The original owners are worse off than they would have been had they sold on the open market.


Before BBBEE, there were no wholesale opportunities to value their unlisted businesses
Actually you had exactly the same opportunities before BBBEE...just minus the restrictions.


Secondly, skilled white people no longer seek employment due to the rigid manner employment equity has been applied, but have opted for entrepreneurial ventures.
No.

Benefit: Possibilities in entrepreneurial ventures
Restriction: Can't "seek employment due to the rigid manner employment equity has been applied"
Advantage created: None. The option of selecting an entrepreneurial venture exists regardless of the restriction. The opportunity was not created by the restriction.
Disadvantage created: Range of opportunities is reduced.


Thirdly, most of the service providers for ownership deals, skills and enterprise development, and socio-economic development services are white people
This assumes that these service providers are owned by white people & they benefit. I'll let that stand for now. What the author fails to mention is that these benefits were paid for by the original shareholders (who are white...else they wouldn't bother with BBBEE). So we've got one white entity paying another white entity. So yes, the one benefited but the other is poorer by an equal amount. Thus no net benefit was created for white people.

Dubious reasoning is forgivable. Authors failing to disclose a conflict of interest is not: He owns & operates a EE rating agency. In some corners of the world that is considered unethical....though perhaps different criteria apply in the BEE world. :confused:

BBBEE is perhaps necessary and correctly done I'm all for it, but lets quit pretending it somehow benefits white people. It doesn't and never will. It always puts white people at a relative disadvantage...because that is its purpose.

/Rant. Now I'll have to read massive amounts of something good to recover from that hogwash.