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Pacsa says you should pay your domestic worker R8,000 a month – minimum

Pacsa says you should pay your domestic worker R8,000 a month – minimum

The Pietermaritzburg Agency for Community Social Action (Pacsa) says that the minimum wage in South Africa should be set at R8,000 to provide a basic level of dignity for all South Africans.

The group’s proposal is based on an analysis of household composition in South Africa, in relation to the country’s demographics – keeping in mind that a large portion of the population is unemployed.

“In determining the value of wages – in addition to productivity, we should be looking at how families are being supported: number of wage earners, income levels, family sizes and the costs of goods and services,” Pacsa said.

“If employment levels are very high then it means that wage levels can be lower because households have lots of sources of income. If employment levels are very low then it means that wage levels must be higher because households have limited sources of income.”

StatsSA’s Quarterly Labour Force Survey (QLFS) for the first quarter of 2016 showed that the working age population (people aged between 15-64) for Black South Africans totaled 29 million people.

Of this, 11.6 million people were employed, 8 million were unemployed; and 9.5 million were not economically active.

The wages of the employed 11.6 million Black South Africans supported the rest (including those younger than 15 and older than 65) – meaning one black South African wage supports 3.8 (4) people.

This compared to one white South African wage which supports 2.3 (2) people.

Statistical data in 2015 found that the median monthly wage for Black South Africans was R2,800, and for White South Africans it was R10,000.

This means that dividing a black wage among the people being support equals R737 per person – below the poverty line of R753 – while for white people this division results in R4,348 per person.

Why minimum wage should be R8,000

South Africa currently has an average minimum wage (across all sectors) of R2,362 which, when divided among dependents, is below the poverty line (R622 vs R753 per month).

“A worker earning R2,362 – the average minimum wage where it has been set – is not enough even to secure a basic basket of nutritious food for a family of four,” Pacsa said. “Transport to get to work and electricity to cook the food are not even part of it.”

According to Pacsa, the minimum amount needed for a nutritional food basket for a family of five is R3,115.

In order to afford other basic expenses – such as electricity and water, transport, education, clothing and hygiene products – only an R8,000 wage would be adequate.

R8000 minimum wage

“Pacsa imagines the NMW as an instrument of justice in economic transformation: as an intervention to deal with historical racial inequities in wage levels, righting the disconnect between the wage earner and cost to support his/her family, and ensuring that all South Africans – employed or not, are able to live at a level of dignity,” the group said.

More on minimum wage

South Africa national minimum wage talks on ice

What you need to know about minimum wage in South Africa

We don’t need a single minimum wage in South Africa: Mboweni

National minimum wage announcement coming soon


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  • Shreez

    lol I love this article.
    I got paid R8500 (gross, which equated to R5500 nett) after doing three years of study and getting a diploma, working in a skilled position.
    I cannot justify how one expects to pay the same to a non skilled worker.

    • WookieJebus

      Because “equality”

      • Silver King

        And then they will sit without a job as the employers will not be able to afford their salaries. Yeah that’s smart………

        • Kosenator

          Foreseeable up next: pilfering the constitution to make it unconstitutional, not to have a domestic if you are a home-owner.

      • Morne McCartney

        In theory it is a great idea. In practice, you will create unemployment because no middleclass person can afford that. I pay my housekeeper R200 a day for 2 days a week, which is the maximum I can afford. If I had to pay more, she would be unemployed and I would be wearing slightly crincled clothes.

        • Rick Grimes

          R200 x 22 weekdays is about R4,400 per month at least (and that’s only if she works a full 16 hours per week – any less and you’re paying her even more). I’m pretty sure that’s more than what most people pay their domestics.

          • Aj Otto

            no, he pays R400 per week, ~ R1600 per month and she has time to spare every week for other clients

          • Rick Grimes

            Which equates to how much is she worked full time? I’ll wait while your brain catches up 😛

          • Aj Otto

            caught up 😛
            I thought you meant that he’s paying her R4400 a month, you triggered my inner math-nazi

          • Excellence in Africa???

            I know it’s early bud, so use a calculator next time you post before coffee?

          • Rick Grimes

            Methinks you need some coffee, not me 🙂 What don’t you understand? If you want to compare what Morne pays to the article, you have to calculate Morne’s full-time equivalent.

          • Excellence in Africa???

            16 hours a week and not 40?

          • Rick Grimes

            Huh… you know we’re comparing to a monthly wage as stated in the article, right?

          • Excellence in Africa???

            Okay. You said 16 hour week, for 5.5 days work…making the hourly wage just under R69. If they worked a full day, full month using 22 days, that’s a monthly salary of over R12k.

            Have some coffee… my treat?

          • Jo

            45h / week at many private companies. Only government entities works 40h / week.

          • William

            R200 a day for 2 days is great in comparison to how much the domestic workers get in my area, which is Bluedowns, Western Cape. A domestic worker this side will possibly get R50-R100 per day for 2 days here.

          • Jo

            BS. I also live in WC, where most domestics live in the Cape Flats, in or around Blue Downs. Most domestics, if not all of them, will not work for less than R150/day, and then still have the cheek to demand free breakfast, lunch (cooked not sandwiches!) and taxi money on top of that. In addition, they only work from 8 to 3 or even 9 to 2, which is a measly 20 to 30 hours / week after subtracting lunch and breakfast time.

          • William

            I based my comment on people that I actually know who are domestics. More so, these people are not permanently employed, hence the low payments they receive. Not sure if they get food though.

            The domestic workers that are willing to work for these little amounts are normally from areas where there’s absolutely no work available.

          • Jo

            Most of them will lie about their income, just to gain your sympathy. Believe me, you will not find anyone of them working for you for only R100 a day, let alone R50. Even a city car guard who works about 3 hours a day, gets more than that.
            A research company recently found that domestics in WC Peninsula, are getting the highest payments in the entire SA. And that was closer to R180 per day minimum, where “day” actually means only 4 – 6 hours.

          • Jaco Bosman

            I live in Cape Town CBD and I agree. Most of the domestics i know, including mine, earn between R250 and R280 a day and won’t work for anything less than R150 to begin with. If you pay your domestic less than R150 you should be ashamed. My domestic only works for 3 hours and she’s done, because there’s no point in her sticking around if she has no work to do.

        • Wari Murphy

          Already wearing the slightly crinkled clothes. I know how to operate a vacuum cleaner and am adding an extra R400 a week to my money market account…and I’ve stopped being hassled by breakages and petty pilfering.

      • Cultural obligations: None
        Media and communication: None
        Burial Insurance: None
        Education: Should be free if you have media and communication
        Clothing: Every month?

        Come on man, this is a higher standard of living.
        All you need is money for your survival, not your comfort level.
        There is a BIG difference between NEED and WANT.

        • Maxill

          DON’T COME HERE WITH YOUR COMMON SENSE AND RATIONALITY!!

      • 60% of domestic workers are from Lesotho. South Africans are too lazy for such.

    • Lone Stranger

      Man, I know your pain. 5 years ago, I had to make do with R4500 gross. I was a qualified computer technician after all. Now I have moved to the programming field. Much better off now, but when I think back, I can’t believe I stayed loyal for that much money.

      • Shreez

        Yeah it’s crazy. And to get qualified in whatever field, it takes a lot of dedication and hard work.
        Yes, being a domestic is hard work, but it’s hardly a thought provoking job.

      • Queen

        Its rough!!! I am a programmer, half way through my honours and I can’t even afford to pay 4000 towards my kid’s school fees. I think the plan in this world is to just dismantle the middle class here. No matter how much you try, you can never get anywhere… So, its either you are rich or poor… The middle class is the scum of the earth.

    • Black_Hat

      Same with Zuma.

    • Greg

      Ha, love it too! My fiance has a BCom Honours (Financial Risk Management) and she couldn’t find work for over a year. Trust me, we tried everything. Yes… even cornering HR and bank managers in parking lots. So we thought she should at least continue studying; to keep her busy mostly – I paid. She enrolled for and is completing her BCom Financial Accounting degree by the end of this year. During all this she eventually managed to get a traineeship at a small saipa/saica accredited accounting firm. 4Yrs after graduating she is still earning less than R8000 a month – note with essentially 3 degrees. (It’s shocking that these guys exploit graduates like this – but that’s a story for another day). My point is: There’s no way R8000 is close to feasible for a domestic worker if highly qualified and motivated people can’t even earn that money in the current economic context. Oh… Have I mentioned we’re immigrating.

      • Shreez

        Wow, that is shocking!
        Also, well done on the immigration!
        Where are you guys going to?

        • Greg

          Thanks. Australia…. It’s been a long time coming.

          • Shreez

            Great man. Really, well done!
            I’ve researched immigration into Aus and it is really difficult and expensive. It will be worth it though.
            All the best!

          • Good luck with paying for domestic help there…

      • Johnoe01

        I’d suggest you emigrate, not immigrate………

        • Greg

          My sentence does not convey a point of departure or arrival. And as our intent would be to go live in another country permanently; I think it’s fair to say that one could use the word “immigrating”. But I’m no linguist. Also, who really cares.

          • Visionery1 .

            Cunning linguist. 🙂

          • Johnoe01

            Good luck wherever you go. Australia has worked well for several friends of mine. 😀.

          • yodaho

            Maybe your employer in your new country!

      • Colonel Jack

        (tongue in cheek) – Education means nothing. I know a guy who has barely any education (I think std 6 or 7), but just the security upgrades at his home costs R246million. And every member of his family and his extended family are directors of large corporations and are always receiving government contracts. Funny how that works.

      • She should have done computer science. Our grads start on R20-R25k per month.

        • Alex

          I worked for an IT company where grads with even Honours in Comp Sci where paid under R10k per month

      • Jakes

        Unfortunately Financial risk management is something only required by bigger companies. The downside for her is that these big companies will in most instances only look at CA’s for most of their senior finance roles. I graduated with an Honours in finance but struggled to find work. Decided to do articles because I couldn’t find anything else. Since qualifying as a CA the employment market is still tough but it’s a lot easier when you have a professional qualification.

  • cpt_citizen

    there will be a whole lot more unemployment if this comes around.

    • Owen

      Now you see why the homeland system was always going to be a failure.
      Most whites are lazy people.

      • yodaho

        That is why they are more successful, wiseguy!

  • Matthew McGregor

    And there and then all domestic workers were fired!

    • Glynis Smith

      Have a domestic worker and reduce the hours if you can’t afford full time. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that wage for part time jobs. It would have to be apportioned over the hours actually worked

      • Rick Grimes

        R356 for eight hours.

  • Cheesy 3.0

    Thanks…but I will find ‘dignity’ in doing my own housework. Not ever going to pay R8 000 p/m.

    • Owen

      I would not even pay R1.

  • terencej

    People should just clean their own houses. If your house is to big to clean but you can not afford to pay R8k for a domestic worker then get a smaller house.

    • hairyback

      We’re running a car wash service- R10,000 per wash and go. If you can’t afford it then get a bicycle.

      • terencej

        If you charge me R10k per car wash I would laugh at you and wash my own car.

        • hairyback

          I would go to someone who charges less.
          The point is I don’t think you should be expected to pay over-inflated salaries just because you can afford to- ie that your only options are pay an unreasonable 8k or get a smaller house. You should be able to have a big house and pay what you feel the job is worth, and they should be able to say yes, or no without government interference.

        • Excellence in Africa???

          I’m laughing in these people’s faces too!

    • Space Chief

      R8K implies a 40 hour workweek. It does not require 40hours per week to keep a house clean, even a large one.

      • Lone Stranger

        Especially to those who only get a domestic help 2 times a week.

      • Excellence in Africa???

        It’s R400 a day. For the job, that’s ludicrous.

    • Lone Stranger

      I luckily have a domestic help included in my rent. She only comes 2 times a week. My mother on the other hand, have been cleaning her own house (and it is quite a big house) every Saterday for the past 10 years now. She says she can’t trust them, which I can believe.

      When me and my sister still stayed there, we helped her every time. Wasn’t so bad, but now I have to have a domestic help.

    • Owen

      I agree, they are more trouble than help but soon the anc government will help whites understand this concept.

    • Unskinnybob

      Supply and demand.

  • KierieKlapper

    Government should be covering the following in any case with tax money:
    1. Burial service
    2. Water and electricity (Basic services)
    3. Education
    4. Communication and media (assuming this means internet access / cellphone)

    Cultural obligations? What is that? Doesn’t sound important enough that someone else has to pay for it.

    Furthermore, 5 household members… ever heard of family planning?

    My domestic worker earns in excess of R4500 a month, that should cover what they laid out aside form the above mentioned stuff.

    • Space Chief

      I think they mean 2 kids, two parents and possibly a grandparent. The domestic can’t afford R8K for a domestic for herself, so grandma has to do that.

  • Literally Mario

    What are cultural obligations?

    • #trollsmustfall

      ANC membership fees.

  • Willow

    I’ll definitely give up my career and start working as a domestic, if the money is that good! It pays a million times better than my hourly earnings!

    • Red_Baron1234

      Also all the perks as well free meals and other extras that can go home in a packet. Just think about it free WI-FI, calls etc. Heck I am doing now an application, but my skin color will be wrong for BEE.

      • Willow

        You might want to work for me, I supply all stationery for 3 kids, help with school uniforms, a Samsung Galaxy tablet for the one in grade 12, with a modem and 4GB data pm, help with projects, all varsity and bursary applications, free medicines, vitamin supplements and..I think I am already spending R8k pm!

        • Red_Baron1234

          No Problem LOL, Just remember all the “free” stuff that are coming home with me.

  • Gary Johns

    Madness.. they obviously don’t read their own articles – recent one about how many domestic workers have lost their jobs already…. the whole ‘domestic’ industry would shutdown completely if this is approved.

  • Red_Baron1234

    So there will be no more domestic workers or only for the Number 1 and his clan. I did not have one for years now and I must say if you as a family works together you don’t need one. Very little has gone “missing” over the years and my food bill etc is much lower.

  • Ludicael

    Pacsa’s issue is having a domestic worker seems to be overlooked with regards to the profession being a luxury service. I have a domestic and pay her a relatively small fee, she works one day a week and is compensated as such. For the other 6 days of the week, she is free to seek employment elsewhere, further complementing her income. However I recognise the service she provides as it is, an unnecessary luxury which only serves to make my life slightly easier to an extent where I can justify the cost. There’s a balance in this, for both her and myself. She does work which I am fully capable of doing myself, and in fact I do, she just makes it a little easier. For her, she gets to work a simple and stress free job not requiring any particular skillset or experience and is compensated thusly. However, keeping in mind that she is easily replaced by myself, with minimal effort. Should I be required to pay her any more than I currently am then the balance between the service she provides and the value of the service to myself will be upset, after which I will no longer be able to justify her services and will take over her trivial work myself with absolutely no impact to my quality of life other than saving myself some money which can and will be directed elsewhere…

    • WookieJebus

      Yeah. I get mine once every two weeks. She does the exact same job I already do day-to-day, just more thoroughly.

    • Guy Morel

      Exactly this.
      Somehow Africa seems to not understand the concept of Usefulness vs Cost.
      Like the guys at the traffic light selling carp no-one needs and then getting irritated and asking for a handout when you don’t want to buy. If they just asked themselves the question “what do people want or need”, maybe we’d see hot coffee at traffic lights instead of joke-pamphlets, flowers and sunglasses

      • Hennie

        They try their level best selling stuff you need. In the summer it is sunglasses and sunshades for your car and whatever big sport is on the’ll sell rugby, cricket and soccer jerseys. In winter it is rubbish bags, toilet paper and car adapters for your cell phone.

        At least they are still trying to earn a living instead of stealing or just hanging around.

      • If the carp is fresh, it may have some value.

  • Afripression

    Funny how all the problems in these types of articles would not exist if people didn’t have all those children that they clearly cannot afford.

    • RJ

      I always wonder why all these charities always wants money to provide food to the starving kids, they should rather provide condoms and if that does not work, scissors. Some just cannot keep it in their pants and the children must suffer.

      • Lone Stranger

        Mass Effect fans will know what I mean with this one word. Genophage might be a solution.

        • Silver King

          Star Gate SG-1 fans as well :-).

        • Nicholas Alan Groves

          mass swallowing of people..phagocytosis….an amoeba encircling a cell and consuming it. Phagus = swallow. Oesophagus…gullet.

        • Me

          I think free vasectomies at birth would be great.

      • Space Chief

        Condoms are free. Choice condoms are in all clinics and one can take as many as one wants.

    • Kobus Stander

      By the way. It is always so damn easy to spend other people’s money. Too many organisations and boards are spunging on other people’s income. Every time someone makes an honest income, some idiot creates some entity you must belong to, that want’s a share for bugger all. The really dumb ones has to join some statutory bunch that takes most of the fruits of your labour.

    • Yondaime

      ^This

    • Fred Johnson

      Agreed,, “but it is our culture!”

    • Lawrence Msiza

      They also wouldn’t exist if people didn’t hire domestic workers they don’t afford.

    • Space Chief

      R8K would still be needed for other reasons. You can’t for example put a price on the health of a single child family and nutritious food costs a lot of money. Salad every other day. Fish twice a week at least. Fruit every day. Cereal for breakfast. It’s big bucks. If govt defines dignity as paying someone a wage they can buy healthy food with – even just for a family of two, R8K could easily be used as a figure.

    • How well would single YOU fare on R8000 per month?
      And how about much less – like the going average?

      Your snide remarks about other people’s children indicates you suffered a serious lack in your upbringing! It’s not too late to rectify – if you bother to try.

      • brz

        But surely having more children that you can afford to keep clothed and fed is irresponsible?

        • What do you think they should do with the extras – drown them?
          Or do you think we all live in an ideal world? It’s easy to be sanctimonious – much harder to put yourself in another’s shoes (if they have any.)

          No. I don’t it’s “irresponsible.” I think it would be “irresponsible” if we went to the baby-shop and ordered more than we can afford – but that’s not how it works. Is it?

          I think it’s irresponsible that we allow a world where 60 odd people own half the world’s resources and the top 1% own more than the bottom 50%. You wouldn’t even think “not have more than you can afford” if we rectified that.

          And I think it’s irresponsible beyond reprehensible that powerful nations deliberately destabilise and destroy poor nations – and then folk like you turn around and say the problem is poor people having more children that they can afford.

          But hey – I guess I must respect your opinion?
          ————————
          *need online work bit. ly/CatPRef

        • Do you now what “pocket change” is?

          Pocket change is the odd coins you take out your pocket at the end of the day and pop in a jar – or leave on a shelf to pop into your pocket tomorrow on your way out the door.

          Do you know that only 5% of the world’s population has pocket change? The rest don’t have any change to pocket.

          95% of the 7 BILLION people on this planet are TOO POOR to have …… pocket change.

    • Frederick Burger

      Agree. 9.5 million not economically active but definitely sexially active.

    • Debbie Rajacoomar

      Accidents 🙂

  • Ga77a

    Most dual income households have one partner earning about R10,000pm (as per article). Once you account for sundry, It would be logical for that person to stay home and take care of the house rather than employ a domestic worker. Thats two people out of a job.

    • Space Chief

      That’s the thing. The mother stays home and looks after the children, giving them love, education and proper attention. The husband works. There is no need for a domestic worker who costs almost the entire salary of the mother. The children are after all the future and the single best investment the family can make. Educate your kids to be lawyers, doctors, engineers or business people and you’ve helped them, yourself and society.

      (I’m saying “mother” here, not particularly because women should “stay at home”, but because women tend to be paid less fairly or unfairly in the modern world – there is still a gender gap in pay, and of course women tend to raise young children better than men. It can also be the father who stays at home, if the circumstances favour it, but in general women are better at raising children. Men tend to suck at it.)

      • Joe Black

        Are you Jacob Zuma?

        • Space Chief

          What an asinine response.

          What is the biggest investment, Joe? Future generations. Own children. Children raised by loving parents do better.

          Now what makes more sense? Have a loving parent raise the child at home or go to work to earn R10K to then hire a stranger and give them R8K. If you think a stranger will put the same effort a parent will into the child, I have some bridges to sell you.

          There are many reasons why people should have at least replacement level children, i.e a minimum of 2.3. In the West this is not happening. Societies are facing major decline.

          Anyhow you should get the idea.

          • Guy

            Oh. Based on the article the biggest investment is actually youre domestic worker

          • Space Chief

            It seems like it.

          • Rick Grimes

            Children are a liability, not investment. And if you think you’re going to live off the success of your children, you’re no better than all the other parasites using up this planet’s resources.

          • Wari Murphy

            Oh jeez, now you’re just stoking it. There’s nothing more sancrosanct than humanity’s kiddies or our god given right to pop off as many copies of ourselves as we like. You can talk about climate change, the destruction of our ecosphere, war, famine, housing shortages etc, ad nuseum, but you’re a commie/socialist antichrist if you actually want to talk about the real reason for all of the above.

          • Space Chief

            Well let’s look at this BS point Wari made. Commie…. look at China. They’re having a demographic crisis brought on by their one child policy. Guess what, they’re relaxing it.

            Don’t let your little anti-religion complex get into the way of any actual freaking rational thought. 😉

          • Space Chief

            Your problem is that you’re focused off living off the children. Now this need not be necessarily so. People invest in children emotionally, they give people a sense of purpose. After you die, what do you leave behind? A ton of money? Or maybe you leave behind productive, moral people who carry on doing good and being productive and kind people in the world.

            Never mind that we need people to work for us in our old age. Look at Japan having to make robots to look after their elderly. And of course, yes in many societies, children do look after their parents, even very highly developed societies. In some places it’s an affront to send your grandfather to an old age home.

            Anyway, you’re looking at it from one particular POV.

          • Rick Grimes

            Maybe 🙂 But emotional investment and a sense of purpose doth butter no parsnips.

          • Rick Grimes

            It is this very mentality: “children are investments”, that causes extreme poverty in our country. Specifically poor people live under this misguided falsehood that more children = better chance of a solid retirement. Then you end up with families of 5 or more with no hope of ever affording to educate all the offspring, which just perpetuates the never-ending cycle of squalour.

          • Anton van Schalkwyk

            Sorry, Rick. I disagree with you there. Children are a blessing and a significant investment, both in time and in money. I want the best for my kids one day, and that will require a lot of sacrificing on my part, something I will gladly do. I don’t want to live off them, I want them to have good lives, to be assets to society, to make a difference. Who knows, I might be raising the future president of our country.

            To respond to “It is this very mentality: “children are investments”, that causes extreme poverty in our country.” – the entire population do not subscribe to the mentality you’re alluding to. And it isn’t the childrens’ fault that the parents can’t control their urges due to “whatever” (read unemployment, boredom, not knowing any better etc) so to blame the consequence for the action makes no sense.

          • Space Chief

            Children ARE investments. The human race requires children. People need to work to pay for us when we get old. Someone has to wipe our butts at the old age home, u know. Besides that there is the issue of one’s own children. That is people u love.

            Of course the issue you raise is that people are not raising their children properly and have too many to be able to look after them well and children need love, attention and lots of money.

            These are two separate issues. With everything there are caveats. For example you should do 30min of aerobic exercise per day but you shouldn’t do that if you have unstable angina pectoris or you have an unstable neck injury.

          • Rick Grimes

            Expecting your children to pay for you when you get old is selfish, not to mention you’re gambling on (1) them being successful, (2) them not moving to another province/country without you, (3) them not dying, (4) them not hating you and/or your view of social obligation.

          • Joe Black

            Just sounded like you jumped on the opportunity to sell the idea that women should stay at home and look after children.

            This when it could just as easily be the man that stays at home, or a family member or friend .

            But anyway… The main point for me is that people should choose what works for them. I’m not one to dictate to people what they must do with their own families.

          • Space Chief

            Nobody is dictating. Thanks.

        • yodaho

          How does this make him zuma?? Weird!

      • Lone Stranger

        When I was younger, my mom could not do that. Both parents had to work, like the majority of households, to make ends meet. That is how society are these days. To stay alive isn’t cheap anymore.

        Besides, you have to be rich to allow your wife to stay home and look after the kinds, because the majority of house wife’s are spending their time, spending money worse than a 6.3 liter V12 engine, especially after the kids left the house.

        If she had a career before she became a house wife and have to go back, it is basically futile to continue where you left off. She will be out of the loop. Happened to a family friend of ours.

        • Space Chief

          Some people claim that it’s the mass influx of women into the workforce which caused the larger number of workers, which then devalued wages (more supply of labour vs demand) which then drove wages down which then further requires mom and pop to work, even if they have 0 or even just 1 junior at home. That’s what some people claim. I don’t know. Most of my relatives and extended relatives work, most of the women in my family are uni grads and most work.

          My point was more about taking things at cost value. If your domestic is going to cost a large portion of your spouses’ salary it would make rational sense to have one of the parents do the job themselves, and as a bonus, and some people will say it’s the principal reason, they will do a far, far better job, usually.

      • v_3

        In other words, the way things are done in the rest of the world, except that both parents are increasingly having to go out and find work (it it is available) and people use a lot more appliances and “outsource” meals and laundry. As Moeltsi Mbeki pointed out, what Southafricans consider “normal middle class homes” — free standing with a fair bit of ground — is the preserve of the ultra-wealthy in most international cities. The typical big (by international standards) SA home with its grounds reequires a lot more labour than European or American apartments.

        Before the industrial revolution, domestic service was the biggest employment in UK. Due to our massive pool of low-skilled “surplus appendages” our non-first world economy is almost “pre-industrial”.

        • Space Chief

          Except in many places the grandparents also help. And if they don’t help, the child minder does not cost the same as the mothers’ salary. And if she does then often the rational parent will stay home.

          SA has normal free standing homes because we have plenty of space. It’s actually expensive to build up, u know. Those high rise apartments cost way more to build than homes. As land becomes scarce one day in SA this may change.

      • overit

        The gender pay gap is a myth.

        • Space Chief

          Even if it is, women tend to get paid less – people who say it’s a myth claim that they take more time off for family or work in professions which bring in less pay, such as teaching or nursing vs computer programming and engineering. That does not invalidate the point I made.

  • Snowlock2.0

    Sure she can ask for R8000 pm, then I’ll ask her to get off my property.

  • manbotttt

    I wonder how much unemployment would increase too if 8000 became the minimum wage?

    • Lone Stranger

      It would easily pass the 50% mark

  • Roger Weiss

    The problem is that many of us pay our domestic for 1 day a week only and in some cases they don’t work a full week because they can’t find employment elsewhere for the other days of the week

    • HorseOfPangor

      You have a DOMESTIC, OH MY LORD!!!!

      • Roger Weiss

        Not sure what you’re surprised about? This article is about domestic workers, of which I have in my employ? What’s you’re point?

  • hairyback

    so according to pacsa when employment is low then wages should be high- say 8000. So does that mean when their rubber-brained scheme fails and thousands more lose their jobs that the wages should then increase to say 15,000? Man if we can just hold onto our jobs until we become like Zimbabwe then we’ll be pulling in a couple million a month.

  • GP

    Pacsa can suck a toffee. Stop making so many babies.

  • Perhaps PACSA can do something more useful with their time than setting up domestic workers for full time unemployment. Perhaps they can form a union that offers monetary guarantees to cover losses for dishonesty and gross negligence. Perhaps they can work out a certification system for domestic workers with actual skill and useful experience. Or perhaps they cannot do these things, and they should confine themselves to demanding more for doing the same. Besides this, the day rate of domestic workers will soon be R8500 due to currency debasement, and all of their fine efforts will be wasted.

  • Greg Gow

    I doubt if this will be affordable for many employers. Many people may find themselves without work due to the affordability.

  • Khalsa Singh

    Better still………make it a minimum 100K a month for domestics and garden boys.
    Then watch parliament make quick but intellectually appropriate career changes.

    • GP

      100k a month is peanuts for parliament. bribes and tenders have may 0000’s on them these days.

  • Zaheer

    The average wage i seen a lot of school teachers get is R6300 a month.

    The other option – we can get Chinese ppl to work as the domestic servants too

    • Space Chief

      Chinese will not work for R6K.

      • Zaheer

        Think u misunderstood – at the moment the South Africans work for 6k per month.

        • Space Chief

          Yeah that’s IN South Africa.

      • MarvinTheParanoidAndroid

        People from the most-hardworking nation on earth, the biggest economic success story in written history… Yeah, you may want to rethink the whole “Chinese will not work for $X”.

        The reason China is holding much of US debt and purse-strings across the world is because they are willing to work long hard hours for very little immediate gain. We’ve seen this before, in SA, a long time ago.

        You know why the indentured labour (slave-labour) was shipped to SA in the first place, right? I mean, there was a ton of subjucated people already living here but colonialists still imported unskilled labour from abroad, who could barely speak the language (in most cases, not at all).

        Ever wonder why?

        • Space Chief

          Chinese will not come to SA to work here for R8K. I’m not speaking about their workers in factories back home. Note that even there wages are rising. China will become like Japan one day. And no the Japanese are just as hard working, maybe even more so.

  • John Deer

    I See Unemployment quadrupling.!!!! The ZUMA Syndrome.!!!

  • Erlo Muhl

    I would think that logic should prevail in employment. If you fix any rates it will cause disruption in the employment potential that exist in any given situation, No fixed rate can determine fairness. If you have a free decision on what the employer wants to pay, he who pays too little will be without an employee and he who pays too much might find himself in trouble with his own finances. So the best is to let the wages be a free decision and many more people might be employed and less friction would be caused, because a more balanced situation in the employment field would be created. If hire and fire would be left freely to the employer as well and he does not play a fair game he would sit without any help very soon.

  • Space Chief

    These mimimum wages are fine but then her employer should be making at least R50K minimum. It’s BS to imagine someone who makes R30K can give a third of his salary to a domestic, what then of RAs, insurance, medical aid, home loan, rates, utilities, armed response, car loan, fuel, clothes, childrens’ expenses and petrol?

    • Treezle

      I earn R50k and cannot afford a domestic. I pay R12k in tax, rent is R10k, my bond on my investment property is R10k, levies are R3k, saving up R5k a month for my wedding. That leaves me with R10k for the month? Oh wait, electricity, water, insurance, petrol, food, internet, cellphone. Another R6k. Leaving me with R4k for the rest of the month. Where is the R8k coming from? Yeah… it’s not.

      • HorseOfPangor

        You earn R50k and pay *only* R12k in tax……HMMMMMMMMMMMM

      • Space Chief

        Minimum, so u may actually have been earning more than R50K. You are probably not lower tier pay in your job bracket.

        • Treezle

          50k before tax… either way R8k a month is ridiculous.

  • david

    Which is why I do my own house work

  • Joe Black

    Who can afford that?
    Do the homework yourself – Pay R8000?
    Tought choice [sarcasm of]

    Bloody hell these unions have to start thinking with their brains. Domestic workers are not even part of the formal economy! If it goes on like this you will need to hire an HR, and work out income tax, and do IRP5s just to get somebody to come tidy your place.

  • Anton Schutte

    hahahaha yes, please enforce this nationwide…it will teach the average South African that they CAN do their own house and gardenwork. Another “gibs me dat” well thought out plan by the majority…

  • Mo

    First this PACSA, should go ask ANC for our TAX MONEY ie the 10k you mentioned, and if minimum wage is 8K EVERYONE will be paying TAX lol more CORRUPTION. instead of buying and wasting money, keep the minimum wage fair to all ie between 1500 to 2500 (which is fine) and take OUR tax money and distribute like you should do via SOCIAL WELFARE instead of giving them PEANUTS :/

  • RJ

    I can see all the Domestic workers going… yay! Pay us 8000! we want good lives! Pay us or we leave!…

    Cya, I hope you send your children to school.

  • unreal

    I’ll pay it if you subsidize it. Let’s go 50/50

  • Guy

    “If employment levels are very low then it means that wage levels must be higher because households have limited sources of income”
    This is the stupidest statement ive ever heard. Simply put. If you are unemployed, how are you going to afford a domestic worker? The article also seems to ignore how the government takes most of our money in tax.

    Now. How is someone going to pay their domestic 8k when they themselves make 12k minus tax which is about 8k? The domestic would take home more than the employer.
    Stupid mentality.

  • Simon Paton

    What does not seem to be covered is that the overall household income should be R8000- this is likely going to be from a dual income- a not a sole bread winner so to speak. R4000 is far more likely than R8000, and lends itself towards more in fact. Thereby having two incomes above R4000 ends up better than the one suggested at R8000.

  • Lone Stranger

    If this comes into effect, mass unemployment will follow. As if we can afford to make more unemployed people in this country.

  • Neil Glezer-Jones

    What a load of rubbish. Firstly the White Median of R10000 is probably paying the R2800 median wage. Secondly this article basically says that the more children and dependants you have the more you are entitled to be paid. My wife and I got married, lived a few years getting ourselves into a financial position that we could afford children. We did not just procreate! It is basic education you should not have children if you cannot afford them. The problem is in this country the more children you have the more the government will give you to look after them. Who pays for that? The White median. This is my opinion.

    • Lone Stranger

      You are thinking clearly. That is why I haven’t decided to start a family of my own yet as well. I am not even close to supporting them yet. The medical aid alone for 3 people is enough to take a huge chunk out of a persons salary.

      I had the same argument with our domestic help about this. All they can respond with is that they have a right to have kids. They do not THINK for once in their life in what situation they place that child. Another mouth to feed and when they can’t do it, they expect the government to do it for them.

    • Mazi

      Lol so many assumptions made here hahaha!

    • Fred Johnson

      S ‘Tru!

    • Lawrence Msiza

      I totally agree with you people shouldn’t have kid’s they can’t afford to support, and they also shouldn’t have “helpers” if they can’t afford to pay the minimum wage.

      • Space Chief

        So you’re basically saying if someone wants to work for R6K per month they are not allowed to because R8K is minimum. Realise how anti-freedom that is.

        Minimum wages, if such exist, have to be realistic. You can’t expect to pay the same salary for a relatively unskilled job as one for a skilled job.

        That R8K domestic better know basic life support, be an expert in cooking and house cleaning, provide nutritious and affordable meals and so on. Maybe a 3 year course for domestics first and then charge R8K?

        • Lawrence Msiza

          All I’m saying is people shouldn’t want things they can’t afford.

          • Space Chief

            People wanting things they can’t afford is what drives people to improve themselves.

            And the analogy is not so good anyway. The govt artificially fixing a minimum wage at R8K to allow those people to also have families makes no sense given how many of the middle class professional women and many men actually forsake having children for the sake of careers. Surely a domestic could also do something similar? If a woman lawyer or CEO wants to put off having kids till she is 35y for the sake of her career, why can’t a domestic do the same for the sake of her career?

          • Tango

            Dear deep thinker, how will the unaffordables then afford anything with no wage?

  • Roffle Waffle

    Another misleading click-bait headline and judging by the comments people have fallen for it without much critical thought. Nothing other than the writer’s irresponsible headline even mentions domestic workers. The statements are about minimum wage as a whole, and I’m assuming they’re referring to salaries and wages in the formal sector specifically for full-time employees (which btw most domestic workers would not qualify as). In any case, hypothetically if the nationwide minimum wage were increased it would lead to a) increased spending and thus revenue to cover said wage increases; b) upward mobility of all wages (because skilled workers would not be content being paid the same as unskilled workers) and c) a long term improvement in the economy and society as more people are educated, can afford healthcare etc and crime levels drop. Hypothetically. Of course, its also possible that prices would increase proportionally thereby having no real effect on living standards. Either way, I don’t see all those commenting being happy to live on R2000 pm, and that is the real issue here.

    • Excellence in Africa???

      R2k would be R100 a day, that is too little. But I do not see value in trading the services a car provides, for the same service I receive for what I pay now, being increased so dramatically. In other words, the service isn’t worth it.

      • Roffle Waffle

        Again, you’re referring to domestic workers specifically. Which actually had very little to do with the article. R2000 is too little for anyone to live off, let alone support others with. And yes, R8000 is unaffordable for most people to pay someone out of their income to do housework. Not surprisingly societies with strong economies and better living standards (including but not limited to high minimum wages) do not have domestic workers. Individual workers can’t afford to pay someone else’s salary, and paying anything less than a dignified wage is seen as exploitation of labour (rightly so I think, but that’s a matter of opinion). You can refer to any developed economy as an example.

        • Tannie

          1. Regardless of domestic worker or not, white families can barely survive on a salary of R8000 a month because we pay 10x more for electricity than in the townships, we pay 10x more for rent and we do not get 80 years to pay off loans when buying a house. 2. White families try to only have 1 or 2 children regardless of what their salaries are. 3. If this useless government would make sure that the healthcare system actually worked and that government employees actually do their jobs at the hospitals, clinics etc, less money would have to be spent on private medical aid and private services. 4. If government stopped blaming white people for what they have done to this country over the last 20 years and actually focused on job creation, education and so forth then our economy would / could grow. 5. If the cost of living was not as high as it currently is, then maybe a lot more people including domestic workers can afford to live on a salary of less than R8000 per month and there would be less unemployment. This is just another ploy by idiots to make black people believe that white people live better/easier lives than the black people in this country which is very biased and causes more unnecessary racial tension.

        • Excellence in Africa???

          Why are you comparing our lump of coal with a diamond? We are not a developed country bud. At the moment we’re struggling to retain 3rd world status!
          The article is about domestic workers, not minimum wage across all sectors. Unless the intention is to lead into a real job minimum of R12500? And this is so because excluding the agricultural sector, the next level up is domestic, where the minimum wage comes into effect.

          over a million people do this job. In the current climate, that means 900,000 will be out of work.

          • Roffle Waffle

            1. I’m “comparing our little lump of coal to a diamond” because surely looking to a successful model to see what works is a way to gauge what policies might be a good idea before implementing them. Is the ultimate goal not to become one of those “diamonds”? Can you cite any examples of countries with livable minimum wages that have high unemployment and struggling societies? (not being sarcastic here, it would be interesting to compare)… as far as I’m aware wages are positively correlated to growth if you look at the evidence globally (although I do admit it’s a bit of a chicken/egg question here).

            2. The article is NOT about domestic workers. They’re not mentioned at all. It’s about the national minimum wage for full-time employees. Hence my comment that the headline is clickbait.

          • Excellence in Africa???

            We can dream whatever dreams we like Roffle, but that won’t change reality. 1st world status requires an educated population, which we haven’t even started to begin producing. So we are talking a minimum of 20 years if we implement it now!
            So yes, let’s have that dream, not pretend we can afford it?

          • Roffle Waffle

            I agree with you there that education is at the core of everything and is badly lacking in our little corner. That’s a separate discussion all together. BUT, that being said, one could also argue that if people had more money, they’d get more educated.

          • Excellence in Africa???

            Lol. It comes down to that chicken practising family planning! Or how many carts we want to put in front of our horses I suppose.

          • Roffle Waffle

            Well, those social problems that you’re referring to would begin to be solved with people being lifted out of poverty and educated. There’s plenty of evidence globally to support that. Start looking for solutions instead of pointing out problems 🙂

  • Excellence in Africa???

    Why not make it 30k? I mean, who cares about the value of money or the job being done right? We have a population that breed like rabbits so let’s make that the determining factor?
    In fact, only uneducated people with 7 kids should be eligible for management positions!

    You can’t structure an economy around the lowest common denominator. All you will do is completely out price yourself on every other metric!
    A domestic employee requires zero skill. In fact, the most desirable quality is for them not to steal! Now how do you reconcile your theory with all of that? And we haven’t even gone into affordability. In essence you are saying that because I can afford a house, I must pay over R12k a month to keep it tidy inside and out?

    Where is the value I’m to derive from that?

  • The one and only

    Why is it always black vs white in this country racism will never get fixed this way. And to get to the point. R8000 a month comes to R400 a day or R50 per hour. 1day a week with 4 week month is R1600. Thats the same price you pay for DSTV and internet together. You pay this with a smile on your face.

    • Excellence in Africa???

      How many hours service do I get from those providers? And you obviously don’t have kids! DSTV is a nanny, teacher and law enforcement tool all rolled into one fee of under a grand a month! Internet pays for itself in homework material and time save alone too!

      It’s not about race, it’s factual that black people do this job. How else would you address it?

      • The one and only

        It is about race. It is stated here that average black gets paid xxx and average white gets paid xxx. Stop comparing everyting between black and white

        • Excellence in Africa???

          Apologies, I thought you were referring to the comments and not the article.

    • MarvinTheParanoidAndroid

      I can save that R1600 by spending one day a week cleaning my own house. I can’t save R1600 my producing my own movies.

      (I don’t even have DSTV, internet is less than R300/m).

    • The Damned

      No we dont.

  • lino_lupus

    That is R96000 a year, in which your salary/earnings should have to be 3 or 4 hundred thousand a year, assuming you owe nothing to the bank, car and house paid in full or almost…….Who are these Joneses or these Mpisanis?????

  • Gutterboy

    and tomorrow no-one can afford a domestic worker and they all lose their jobs

  • Sand Pebble

    No rent in the calculations? I wish my household could earn R8000. We cannot even get a child grant for my grandchild.We also do not have access to an RDP house.

  • Jakes

    Lovely idea. All domestics get fired, then some gov minister starts a domestic cleaning service and pays his workers R150 per day while he charges the customer R500 per day………..

  • Icemanjh

    We pay our domestic worker the monthly salary and she is happy to get the money. If it goes up we will not be able to keep her on and it will not be her fault. PACSA will be the guilty party. She will keep on working for the normal amount we are paying her, but then we will get into trouble. One of these days they will tell you that there is a minimum amount to pay to car guards.

  • Led

    I don’t want to sound entitled, but I don’t see how an unskilled worker deserves R8000 per month. Yes, in a perfect society, where government runs state hospitals as it should, offers free education, and other basic necessities, then I’m all for the R8000pm.
    I know many friends and family who have degrees from university who don’t earn that amount after even 2 or 3 years, and yet it makes sense for someone to leave school (possibly without a matric) and earn more?

  • Mohamed Patel

    “Pacsa says you should pay your domestic worker R8,000 a month ”
    Was the question “how can you create more unemployment?”

  • Kingfisher

    Well, in that case, the minimum pension should be the same! Don’t older folk deserve dignity?

  • Zain

    I want to be paid 8000 a month without a diploma or a degree, and work a job where I get a lunch provided and possibly get to live in and not pay rent any rent.

  • Ray Mulder

    Freedom of choice. Both parties have this basic right. If we can conquer greed at corporate level the lower levels will earn more. Suffering and difficulties in life have reasons which are beyond most peoples consciousness and understanding. Life has a greater purpose than the amount we earn. Our desires is what determines the amount of money we demand.
    Some people are able to live off a lot less than others and in my mind this makes them better people. Most people think that their material possessions is what determines their wealth when wealth is actually the level of our ability to do with less. Inner wealth does not require outer possessions.

    • BD

      Conquer greed? Sounds like a crusade. If as a business owner I struggle for years, miss out on many personal things and many sleepless nights, why should I automatically share this with people who took no risk when I finally make it happen? Conversely, these same people standing with their arms outstretched, should share in the downside if my business struggles, and mortgage/sell their own possessions and work long hours for no pay to help the business get back on their feet. Sound like a fair and equitable approach to you?

  • Peter Hillis

    So you raise the minimum wage to R8000. Half the employed people are sacked as they can’t be afforded any more. Now one black South African wage supports 7.2 people. So next year the minimum wage has to be raised to R16000. Great plan.
    Conversely, using this logic if my domestic worker’s currently unemployed husband come to work for me I shouldn’t pay them any more than I’m paying her on her own now, or if he gets a job somewhere else I should reduce her wages – as according to this logic it is the family income that counts not the actual work done.

  • AndrewWheelerDealer

    Congrats guys. Two thumbs up for effort. Unfortunately, our domestic is a luxury (if we are being honest). In a tough economic climate, a reason to have a couple extras bucks in the pocket is appealing…

  • Savatar

    I know people with DEGREES that are not earning this as a starting salary.
    Come on, people.

  • The Damned

    Delusional, say goodbye to another 100 000 jobs this year.

  • v_3

    “If you are not a socialist by the time you are twenty, you have no heart; if you are a socialist after you are twenty, you have no head” – George Bernard Shaw, playwright, social commentator and Fabian [socialist society].

    While nobody should be able to argue with PACSA on moral grounds (“thinking” with the heart), when one applies one’s head, their arguments become reckless.

    With domestic unemployment skyrocketing, the last thing the country needs is a massive round of lay-offs. Clearly their “household consumption” model ignores did not extend to potential employers. Why they regard four* children as a norm or “right”is a mystery. [*Given the high number of single parent families and PACSA’s assuming that the domestic worker — another assumption: that the worker is female — is the sole breadwinner in the family, hence “four” children; were the father part of the “family” his income should be part of their calculation. The alternative assumption, that mom and dad are in the family, hence three children implies that the income should be split in their unemployment-free world, hence R4,000pm which is not what they are saying].

    They would do far better to agitate for better education (hence more productivity and employment) and on family planning (rightfully a comopnent of better education”)than this garbage.

  • breindrein

    I know qualified teachers that get paid that.

  • DaveL

    Well, that will be at least 2 more domestics in the unemployed queues.

  • dogmansa

    Do these guys actually have a clue what people earn in this country?

  • Willem

    Bit absurd as to why should the employer pay for all the employees kids. You should only have the number of kids you can afford. Budget according to your means not the otherway round. The government has set the minimum wage for the sector, why do they think they are better. At that minimum wage a lot more would become unemployed.

  • nicc777

    If they wanted to propose a strategy for growing unemployment then they have succeeded with flying colours.

    I’ve had to live without a domestic helper for over 4 years now. Yes, It shows… But what can you do if you can’t afford these rates?

  • DaveL

    Well that would be 2 more domestics in the undemployment queue!

  • MP3

    hahahaha, good bye dear domestic worker, you’re ppl have made you redundant 🙂

  • Dewald Alberts

    There goes a whole lot of jobs down the drain, as if unemployment is not high enough….just saying

  • Lew Skannen

    Crazy research. Crazy article. Crazy people.

    If there are any slight hint that this will ever go to parliament, I am sure at least 90% of the middle-class will not wait for this to become law. I foresee huge number of retrenchments upcoming.

    This will be a tragic event for the poor.

  • LegallySpeaking

    I’m failing to see where Pacsa says that you should pay your domestic a minimum of R8000 pm. They say, in order to sustain a family of 4, the minimum wage in the country should be R8000 pm. To make the heading “Pacsa says you should pay your domestic worker R8,000 a month – minimum” is completely misleading and putting words in the mouths of Pacsa.

    To portray their conclusion of what the situation should be in an ideal world as being an assertion made by Pacsa to the general public is extremely poor journalism and is what is commonly referred to as “clickbait” in order to illicit an emotional reaction from potential readers.

    Pathetic MyBB, just pathetic!

  • Louw Nieuwoudt

    I’m all for equal opportunity and having everyone have enough, but if this became a reality, by any stretch of the imagination, I would have better hours and pay without qualifications. And getting fired as a domestic these days is only possible if they actually catch you stealing, so there is the job security too. Oh and lets not forget the amount of leftovers that gets taken home for free, you would only have to buy groceries half the time.Time to brush off the long rubber gloves?

  • Stealth_Za

    wut

  • LegallySpeaking

    Misleading heading!

    I’m failing to see where Pacsa says that you should pay your domestic a minimum of R8000 pm. They say, in order to sustain a family of 4, the minimum wage in the country should be R8000 pm. To make the heading “Pacsa says you should pay your domestic worker R8,000 a month – minimum” is completely misleading and putting words in the mouths of Pacsa.

    To portray their conclusion of what the situation should be in an ideal world as being an assertion made by Pacsa to the general public is extremely poor journalism and is what is commonly referred to as “clickbait” in order to illicit an emotional reaction from potential readers.

    Pathetic MyBB, just pathetic!

  • weepee1

    Our domestic has been a part of our lives since our child was born 11 years ago. She has played a big part in our child’s upbringing. I would like to pay her more but can only afford R5000. For what she does she deserves R8000. I have looked at ways where she can increase her income and suggested she gets a part time job 2 days a week and works for us for 3 days. She does not want to do this. What I am trying to say is a minimum wage of R8K would be a disaster as many people would have to let their domestic worker go.

  • NeonPigeon

    I love this expectation that a unskilled, low responsibility, luxury-rather-than-a-revenue-generating worker should be able to support a family of 5. The thinking behind it…

  • Jaco

    It’s the thin end of the wedge… a Benite Solution…
    10 Internet Points to anyone who get’s that… 🙂

    • BD

      Yes Minister?

      • Jaco

        Absolutely! Well done!
        Your account will be credited with 10 Internet Points. Unfortunately, they’re not redeemable for Nectar Points…

        • BD

          LOL!! Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister are top notch British comedies, and as relevant today as ever 🙂

  • SouthAfricaFirst

    This would lead to mass job losses. A person earning R10 000 per month can afford domestic help at R2500 per month which is better than nothing….

  • Hans von Pistov

    I wonder how much PACSA is paying their cleaners and tea ladies?

  • l0cal_user

    This is magic. Mass domestic unemployment here we come.
    Choices are as follows:
    1) get a second job to pay the salary of someone else, deal with tax and uif and iod etc;
    2) Vacuum your own house once a week, not deal with uif etc, still have time to say hi to family once a day.

  • Debbie Rajacoomar

    My hubby has T3 electrical diploma, he doesn’t earn that much, maybe he should switch to being a domestic, he can make a mean braai 🙂
    I guess unemployment will rise.

  • Wulvz

    Never will I pay a uneducated domestic worker more than what the average educated person with a degree behind their names earn. I would rather clean my own house and pay myself that. If this is what they want then I might as well be a domestic worker, certainly earn more than educated people. What a stupid article

  • bookworm

    I don’t get that myself, so are PACSA going to increment my income to R8K raise my dignity? Nor can I afford an domestic worker at all. This is the real world where the real inflation rate is not admitted to publicly, but anyone who has to buy basic provisions knows damn well that it is more than 6%. When the petrol price goes down in August as has been predicted recently, are the retailers etc. going to drop their prices in line with the petrol prices drop? No the profiteering will just go on, and elephants will never grow wings and become airborne….

  • zenith777

    I understand the problem, too many children and most domestics never had the benefit of a good education. Yet to work out a salary based on the number of dependents just does not make sense…notwithstanding that many families and people who employ domestics are also financially stretched. I mean, if you have 2 kids of your own, that ”spare” R8000 rand is paying for their education and the job of being a parent. In a country where the tax-base is tiny and ridiculously overtaxed for services and Govt budgets that are largely corrupt,mismanaged and blatantly stolen, there is just no extra cash for people to dole out. Good luck with that one Pacsa, I see even more poverty and unemployment should they try and force this one through,people willsimply adapt and do the work themselves, or employ people who will flyunder the radar and be only too happy to accept evn a third of that!

  • Jacobus Pienaars

    Fire them. Clean the house yourself or get commercial company in once in 14 days.

  • david

    Next Headline to be “Pacsa says you must hire a domestic worker if your household income is above a certain level”

  • dude

    Seems we all now need to buy payroll systems for our home needs, cause R8000 is TAXABLE! he he he

  • Stevie B

    Well that’s cool I’ll just ask my boss to give me a R6000 raise so I can pay my domestic. Domino effect comes to mind.

  • Bradley D

    “Statistical data in 2015 found that the median monthly wage for Black South Africans was R2,800, and for White South Africans it was R10,000.”

    Assuming that the majority of the employers are “white”, the average employer will hand over 80% of their salary to their worker? Now the employer has, overall, R800 less than the employee did. Hell, our lot are geniuses…

    • Snowlock2.0

      If those statistics were worth a fart in the wind, every white person would be unemployed. No business would pay 3 times more for an employee.

      • Bradley D

        I trust those statistics as much as I trust our government…

  • Klaus Muller

    As per household expenditure, above, this is for a household of 5 !! I have news for those idiots, nowhere in the world is a income based on members of family, again – IDIOTS

  • Owen

    They should raise the minimum wage for domestic workers to R10,000 a month.
    My wife is a stay at home mom, she cleans, irons & cooks for my entire family.

  • Doug Isherwood

    I’ve heard that the Weed in KZN is seriously good stuff. Makes people come up with some really clever ideas.

  • If this becomes law, well, there will be a LOT of unemployed Domestic workers…

  • Jo

    Using the number of dependents on the income of one person, to determine minimum wage, is just ridiculous! The same goes for a “dignified” salary. So who decides on what is a dignified salary? Or that it is undignified to use a long drop or bucket toilet. This type of argument can only be found in SA, thought up by people who has no idea of what labour is worth. Salary-worthy labour has got nothing to do with dignity, or how many dependents any particular worker has. The dependents are your own choice, so live with it. For me to be dignified, I want a salary of no less than R500k per month, and I am not being greedy. I would like to adopt a small school of 500 pupils, but actually need about R2m a month to support them in a dignified way with the best training facilities, proper nourishment and teachers.

    • BD

      Socialism is alive and well in SA…

  • Barry

    OMG!!! There goes unemployment through the roof because of I D I O T S! Not to even say a word on crime. Bunch of donks. I agree with some other comments. We let ours go, caught stealing, after 8 years of employment. We knew she was just could never get her red handed. The funny thing is…..even if we paid her R10k a month she still would be stealing. We have decided that it is not worth it anymore. Not even a part time worker. We will maar karing on ourselves. And so far the house is a hellaoffalot cleaner and things have stopped disappearing.

  • Frank Jams

    don’t have a problem in paying R8,000 per month provided that my employer increases my salary to R20,000 per month. that would be fair

  • Unskinnybob

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  • Kobus Stander

    I have informed my Domestic Worker of the posts Pasca is advertising. She asks for their street address.

  • leon coetzee

    Time to institute sterilization bonus
    0kid bonus =2x
    1 kid bonus =x
    2 kids .5x
    3rd kid compulsory sterilization no bonus
    Whether you can afford more kids or not

    Because if you don’t have the logic to understand it is not a good idea to have more mouths to feed if you don’t have enough to sustain your family
    the decision should be taken out of your hands

  • Jean Jansen

    So much rubbish articles on BusinessTech these days. Unsubscribing as I speak.

  • Wurnman

    Then im R8k richer every month seeings as my wife makes me clean on weekends

  • HorseOfPangor
  • Eugene Groeneveld

    Thats great, make it R8000 and I know of at least 1 without a job and a place to stay, and this will probably be true for thousands more. I know what I can afford and if I can not afford it, I go without. A domestic is just not worth R8000 per month to me, and I am worth a lot more to her.

  • Hendrik Kruger

    Are they mad? I don’t even get paid that much, so why the hell should an unskilled worker get paid more than me?

  • Guilex

    ROFL

  • Hof

    if this comes in, I am pretty sure ill be cleaning my house on Saturdays and Ironing on Sundays

  • Blapartheid Zulu

    Based on that theory we should all be paid well over R3 million, since we do more work than the president. Bread will only cost R100 000 each by the time that happens

  • Susan Brits

    Of course all people want more money. Many house workers got more than R4000 a month, benefits NOT included. Many South African women do their house work themselves. More domestic workers are jobless and earn nothing.
    People who could afford domestic workers in the past can’t afford them anymore.

  • Boet

    Make it tax deductible and then we can talk

  • Fanandala

    So we should get paid according the size of our family??? Why don’t you tell the people to rather size their family according to their income. I don’t know how my grandparents were able to do that before 1920. But they did. Even then the poor had a great many children, and that was one reason why they were poor.

  • Fred Johnson

    Would you rather earn R3000 pm or nothing? Now go ask the people who this question will affect. It’s called choice, not from some idealist sitting in his office earning R12,000+ per month.

  • letsrockza

    PACSA SE MOER…….let them fork-out R8000! But this is how domestic workers will end up unemployed, brilliant thinking from idiots!!!

  • “If employment levels are very high then it means that wage levels can be lower because households have lots of sources of income. If employment levels are very low then it means that wage levels must be higher because households have limited sources of income.” ??? !!!!
    So how do we solve this problem of not having “lots of sources of income”? According to these brilliant minds at Pacsa (and their parent body the ANC), we can solve that by criminalising the few options of sources of income the poorest of the poor do have. Brilliant. Should we be surprised that the country is burning?

  • Fred Johnson

    Pacsa should read the article 3 down, re static growth in SA and then pat themselves on the back for helping thousands losing their jobs should their idealism and grab-grab mentality win though!

  • Shathie

    It is this kind of thinking that encourages laziness in our country. How will you now justify the benefits of getting some education if people without any education will be getting paid more than those that have it?
    People should think before making and having babies. Just because someone has chosen to have 5 babies and I have none (because i didn’t see the need to rush due to the expense that comes with bringing another life into this world) doesn’t mean that we now all have to suffer to support kids that are not even ours.

  • Lawrence Msiza

    It’s simple if you can’t afford to pay 8k, then cook your own food, clean after your self it’s really that simple. For those who have kid’s they can’t support let them starve. People need to carry their own weight.

  • Dawie

    R8000? But you just mentioned the average white salary is R10 000, so if a white person has a domestic worker they need to pay them 80% of their salary? Then the domestic won’t have a job for long, because the person won’t be able to afford the rent anymore.

    • Tango

      Median, not average.

  • Justin Tweedie

    It appears their view on salaries is distorted by the shamelessly high salaries that government workers are receiving. Recently we heard of municipal managers that get R2.0 million a year and one can only guess the qualifications required considering our presidents own background.

    When the well runs dry the minority without a voice will be blamed.

    • HorseOfPangor

      What you talking about whitey! You chalkey-nigraz be voice beottching and moaning on IOL, MyBroadband, BusinessTech, NEWS24…..DAILY……honkster!

      • Justin Tweedie

        What gave me away?

  • Nicholas Alan Groves

    I have a great domestic worker, she works from 8am til 1pm. I have her 1 day a week = R480. She also works for 4 of my mates. I’m in the lower to middle income bracket – according to MYBB in a previous article, (R11500 nett – medically boarded), I always send her home with mince, pasta(Or spaghetti) Sauce, a tin of beans or mixed veg and a liter of long life milk. She is 62…I would hate to be in this position, she will have a measly Gov pension. R8000 would leave me me without the means for utilities, general rates and food…. R8000/174 normal working hours = R47 Rand per hour (I used to work 147 hours a month). I would be forced to almost double this to meet the rate of pay proposed….I can’t afford that, and sadly I would have to retrench her. Another one of Zoooma’s promised 4 million job creation plan down the drain….

    • HorseOfPangor

      Well, Nicholas Alan Groves….ill tell you what….You’re a lazy good for nothing oxygen thief free-riding on the economy!

      Yeah! That’s what you are…

      • Nicholas Alan Groves

        what economy? You mean the insurance I have been paying into for 25 yrs, which I claim via my provident fund due to medical reasons. Get knotted you ignoramus.

    • overit

      “I have a great domestic worker, she works from 8am til 1pm. I have her 1 day a week = R480.”

      WTF. Nicholas, can I come work for you. I will do anything for R100 per hour.

  • Visionery1 .

    Sad how little the Rand buys these days. My first pay packet in 1983 was R80 per week. As a youngster I remember filling a 10l can with petrol and getting 20c change. 1/2c toffee apples, 16c for hot chips. In 1989 I earned R3,500, a very good salary at the time. Determining a minimum wage is not as easy as this article claims. Someone living in an up-market suburb earning R15,000 has less disposable income than someone living in an informal settlement earning R5,000. Our rent alone is almost R10,000.

    • HorseOfPangor

      poor fella (sniff , sniff, sob)

  • Rob Charlton

    When your understanding of economics does not extend beyond slicing up a fixed cake, then this sort of unsustainable proposal might arise. Why is such incoherence given oxygen?

  • Hennie

    For that money I’ll make myself available as a domestic. I hope meals are included.

  • Znh

    So I employ 3 people and 1 part time (paying way above min wage), after they implement this minimum wage I will employ exactly 1 person and 1 part time, the other 2 will be without any work. Those 2 people are each looking after 3.8 people, so that would be ~= 7 people + plus the 2 unemployed. So 9 people extra to be added to each person working…. And we are exactly where we started. I simply do not have more money, that is it… The pie is only that big, by diving it more there will not be more to eat….only more dirty plates

  • Carl Nel

    and then the career path “domestic worker” became redundant…

  • Les Tindale

    I would think that the majority of South Africans could not afford too pay R8 000.00 per month for a domestic worker. I know that I couldn’t.

  • Frank Payne

    Maybe someone should look at the imbalance between economic activity and the size and rate of growth in the population. Unbridled population explosion cannot possibly be sustained by any realistic productive increase in economies. Increasing wages without productive output will just add to the unemployment pool. Mathematical exercises like this are simplistic and create unsustainable expectations. A nonsense article of note.

  • Epah101

    But I earn R10 000 a month, sooo what should I do now?

  • Munchkin

    If we were forced to pay R8k a month, then you’d see a LOT of domestic workers out of a job…

  • Zubayr Bhyat

    Then our minimum earnings need to be R25000. As it is we struggle to pay r500 to pay for 1 day cleaning per week.

  • Yes. They should be.
    So if we can’t afford to pay that much in these depressed economic times – should we employ and pay the best we can – or not employ at all?

    It doesn’t matter much to me either way – but what about the domestic worker?
    Which does Pacsa think they prefer?

  • Ross Metcalfe

    Unfortunately a minimum wage of R8000.00 would be more than most employers would be prepared to pay. Domestic service in the long term is not viable. Perhaps high transport subsidies would be a good temporary solution. However I do not see a solution,long term or short, to those superior beings, who snipe from the cover of their anonymity and presume that people who have been disadvantaged for so long have too many children

  • S’nyakanyak

    According to MBB 20/7/16, 45 000 domestic workers lost their jobs in the first quarter. Raise the minimum pay to R8 000.00 and another 100 000 will loose their jobs. Wondering after whose interest Pacsa is looking?

  • Jaco Rautenbach

    ” In December 2015, the department of labour announced a minimum wage increase for domestic workers from approximately R2,065 to over R2,230.”

    Date – Min wage vs Domestics Employed- official numbers
    1 Nov 2015 – R2065/m = 1.029 million
    1 April 2016 – R2230/m = 984,000 = 8% increase caused a 4,5 % job loss
    Pacsa – R8000/m = 260% increase with linear deduction will cause a 145% job loss (yes)… so go back to school Pacsa

  • Random

    That means you would be paying R400 a day for a domestic. I think unemployment levels would increase as people would probably opt to clean their houses themselves and save R400.

    In Australia it would cost about R2000 per day for a cleaner and so most people opt to clean their places themselves.

  • Audrey

    I’d love to know where they get these figures. I earn around R2k a month and live with my retired mother and unemployed son. Even in more fruitful times when I earned a living wage I don’t recall it being in excess of R8K a month. I have never employed a domestic worker because I don’t believe other people should clean up after me, but I sure as hell would work for that much as a domestic worker.

  • brz

    Surely all the welfare grants go some way to alleviate the problem?

  • Wyzak

    ““If employment levels are very high then it means that wage levels can be lower because households have lots of sources of income. If employment levels are very low then it means that wage levels must be higher because households have limited sources of income.””

    This whole paragraph is nonsense.

    If there are thousands of workers to choose from the company can offer a lower salary because there is way more supply than demand.

    If there are very few workers available, then the company has to offer a higher salary to attract the few candidates that are available.

    Basic laws of supply and demand.

  • Wyzak

    There should not be 5 people in the household if their income is less than R8000.

  • DumbSA

    The logic is this argument is a little fuzzy too. If they did force a minimum of R8000 I would bet the demand for full-time domestic workers would decrease. If they forced a smaller minimum wage employment levels would naturally increase based on affordability.

  • Debbie Rajacoomar

    I also hope the government would raise the pension to R8000 too, how can the elderly survive on R1400 a month.

  • Herman Swart

    Domestic workers normally get food from you and most people don’t even get R8000 for a office job. Some steal from there employee also. Do you house work yourself and everything is safe.

  • Wayne Gemmell

    I’d love to pay that sort of money. Unfortunately we can only pay what we can afford. I wonder what the members of PACASA earn that they think that this is reasonable?

  • MavusiKenpachi

    We have a domestic worker who comes by once a week and we pay her R250/day. That’s about R8k/month assuming she gets the same on the days she works for other folks. But this means she has to supply her service to 5 households. And THAT means she’s barring 4 other ladies from having a job.

  • I am all for raising the minimum wage, but it should be coupled with more rights for the employer.
    If your employee is not doing their job, you should be able to fire them on the spot, like they do in the U.S. No long, drawn out legal process and warnings and rubbish.
    That way, the market will become more competitive, workers will earn a fair wage, but they will have to work for it, and as an employer, you can be sure of not being taken for a ride.

  • It’s-a-fact

    I employ a domestic worker at R4,000 pm. It’s how much I’m willing to spend for her service. I honestly will not be able to afford to double her salary, I’ll rather clean my own home.

    Bottomline an increade in minimum wage will also increase unemployment.

  • Jim Bob McNally

    “If employment levels are very high then it means that wage levels can be lower because households have lots of sources of income….”

    Supply and demand in reverse apparently.

  • Conraad Bezuidenhout

    Man they should make that mandatory as soon as possible so I can lay of my domestic worker, been trying to get rid of her for years but wife keeps saying no, with that min wage, wife would have no choice than to agree.

  • Prometheus_Revisited

    This is the result that emerges when idiots are let loose to do research.

  • VaMutuki

    I wonder what I will do with that money if I become my own domestic worker.

  • Hof

    Must be hard and depressing if you are smart, work 80 hour weeks, got an education, paid off you study loans, never see you friends or family, dont even have time to make children and then when you want to enjoy some of the money you sacrificed for, people come and guilt you into giving it away. Telling you you are privileged and its unfair to the poor that you have money and they do not. Fare Pay for Fare work. Is it my responsibility how many children you have that you need to feed? My friend that was your choice not mine. I, as an employer have noting to do with all your domestic problems, my responsibility is to pay YOU a fare wage for YOUR labor. Have less children, work harder, work smarter , study more, why do I have to do only I have todo all these things??? For you to get a free ride… In the Words of the apprentice – YOU ARE FIRED, Call the next guy that is willing to work.

  • sharmla

    I wonder if Pacsa officials will pay their domestic workers R8000 p/month and I wonder how many government ministers will pay their domestics R8000.
    Well… I guess this puts more domestics out of work.
    Sweep and mop the house yourself.
    Take the clothes to the laundry, once a week – it will only cost you R400p/month.
    You SAVE a whopping R7600!!!

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