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The DA wants to change BEE laws – here’s how

The DA wants to change BEE laws – here’s how

The Democratic Alliance has launched its own interpretation of Black Economic Empowerment – which it says must economically empower black people, not a small, well-connected elite.

Leading commentators in the country have expressed misgivings about the ability of the current BEE policy to lead to real broad-based black economic empowerment.

DA leader, Mmusi Maimane said that the opposition party ‘unequivocally supports truly broad-based black empowerment’.

He said that the DA is committed to making South Africa a fairer society. “This requires a targeted effort to correct for the inequities that persist in our society as a direct result of Apartheid’s injustices.

“An explicit BEE mechanism, if well-designed for practical implementation, is in everyone’s best interest – it is the fastest way to unleash the massive untapped black talent and energy in our society, and to unite us all around common interests.”

Some, he said, maintain that empowerment should be poverty-based rather than race-based. They want to move away from using race in public policy.

“But combating widespread poverty will not in itself succeed in helping black people to become successful entrepreneurs, or give them a stake in the economy. To normalise our society we must break down race-based structural inequality at every level.”

Current BEE system

BEE compliance is currently measured by means of a points system, in which companies earn points based on their performance in 5 areas: ownership, management control, skills development, enterprise and supplier development (through preferential procurement policies – those which favour BEE compliant businesses for government tenders and contracts), and socioeconomic development.

Unintended negative consequences

Maimane said that the current system is certainly well-intentioned, but to date, BEE has not delivered meaningful broad-based empowerment – neither in scale nor pace.

This, he said, is largely because the system has been captured by a well-connected elite within the ANC that abuses it to become extraordinarily wealthy.

It has also had an impact on everyone outside of the ‘golden circle’ by fostering corruption, discouraging investment, retarding economic growth, and squandering skills.

“As a result, BEE in its current form is almost universally distrusted and disliked by South Africans. It has come to be seen as nothing more than a venal, corrupt, crony enrichment scheme.”

Maimane said that the system needs to be overhauled.

DA’s approach to BEE

The DA said it supports a much-simplified system that measures real empowerment:

  • Award significant weight to Employee Share Ownership Schemes (ESOS), so that employees as a group become substantial stakeholders in the business. This would grow black equity while the company would benefit from the increases in productivity that ownership confers. Employees should be represented at board level to reflect their position as shareholders in the business.
  • Recognise all spending on growing the skills and expertise of your workforce, be it schooling, skilling, training, bursaries, mentoring, internships or apprenticeships, whether conducted in-house or not.
  • Reward companies for growing their work-force. This would mitigate against the incentives to mechanise and makes sense – ultimately, if you can’t be an entrepreneur, the best form of real empowerment is to get your foot on the ladder of opportunity through a job.
  • Reward companies for their development of new black entrepreneurs, whether achieved through direct mentoring of sub-contractors or suppliers, or through donations to organisations whose core competency it is to identify, incubate, finance and nurture black entrepreneurship, such as the National Empowerment Fund.

This would incentivise local procurement from a wider number of diverse suppliers, rather than from a single large, established supplier.

“Importantly, there must be in-built incentives for businesses to go out and find people who have not yet benefitted from the BEE system, so the metric needs to be based on the number of new successful entrepreneurs,” Maimane said.

All businesses in the SMME sector should be automatically classified as having the highest empowerment status. “This would effectively accelerate the growth of this sector, which has the combined effect of growing both entrepreneurs, innovation and, mostly important of all, jobs,” the DA lead said.

[Photo credit: Jurgen Marx]

More on BEE

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Watchdog to police BEE fronting

How many black South Africans benefit from BEE

BEE benefiting only a few

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  • Ben Niemand

    So, how will companies be “rewarded”?

    • Shawn

      Probably tax incentives as one option

    • iandoug

      They will have a better chance (dream on) of getting a government contract. I think in reality it’s “trickle-down” discrimination … the big companies demand that THEIR suppliers enforce racist regulations, so that they (the big companies) can continue to get the juicy government contracts.

  • SpiritOfNehanda

    This kind of thing shouldn’t even be called BEE. This is doing away with BEE completely and making this “BEE” optional and dependent on whether companies are interested in these undisclosed rewards or not. It’s good to dream though, but the reality is that any political party, regardless of history, that does away with those laws at least within the next few decades would have committed political suicide.

    • Of course it can be called BEE, which has always stood for “Black Enrichment Entitlement”.

  • Xileer

    Yea – That won’t happen…

  • hairyback

    You can fit a soccer team into a stadium full of people, but you can’t fit a stadium full of people into a soccer team, and that is the biggest problem with BEE in our country. You cannot integrate 50 million people into an economy that was built for 5 million. Even if you give every white job to a black person tomorrow, that will still leave over 90% of the black population unaffected.

    • AfricanJedi

      yeah 5 million whites.

      • michael wilson

        So then AfricanJedi – if we accept that the current reality is that the economy has to grow drastically in order to even begin to accommodate the currently unemployed then the question is, whose job is it to grow it?

      • hairyback

        yes 5 million “white jobs”, and 50 million blacks standing in line. You still don’t see the problem with this strategy?

      • Rick Grimes

        You’re not listening, AJ… there are SO many black people (8 times more), even if every white person in the country got kicked out, the plight of the average black man would statistically NOT CHANGE AT ALL. People like you hate the whites and think we sit on all the country’s wealth. You really are misinformed; you have been lied to by your own party.

  • hairyback

    I’ve got a few questions about allowing your staff to become substantial stakeholders in your business.
    1) will they share in the risk then as well. Can I reduce their salary for those difficult months that I don’t take a salary?
    2) If I give a share to someone and they leave, what happens to those shares? Should I then be forced to give more shares to the next person, and more to the person after that until I no longer have any shares in my own company?
    3) If the company fails, can we then attach their assets as well, or is the owner the only one who bares that risk, yet everyone else gets the reward?
    4) if I employ 50 casual labourers who didn’t make it through school, who have no understanding about management, contract negotiations, wise investments etc, are they then going to be able to dictate the direction that the company can move in?

    This may work in tellytubby land, but is just as idealistic as anything the EFF and ANC has blown out their nose of late.

    • iandoug

      Thank you so much for exposing the flaws in these schemes …. politicians have never had to run a business and have no idea of the practical issues. Sounds bites are easy.
      I was wondering the other day (co-incidentally) that if a certain group cannot compete on a level playing field, what does it say about them? I mean, in the old days, uneducated people from Portugal and Greece came here, started corner cafes, and built themselves up. Nowadays it is Somalis and Nigerians doing the corner shop thing. What’s wrong with the locals?

      • Robert Dixon

        Don’t forget the Afrikaner that built industries after the British made them “less equal”.
        Volkskas is a very good example of how to rise above inequality WITHOUT bankrupting the country.

    • Pokkel

      Nope. It works like nationalisation. They TAKE the benefits, but YOU carry the risk. It works like expropriation. They TAKE the propery, but YOU have to keep paying the bond and sort the stuff out with the bank. NOWHERE on this planet will you find a single supporter of the ANC, EFF, or ANY of their likes, who will share the risk and help carry the burden. It’s ALL ABOUT HANDOUTS. End of argument. They blame colonialists to this day for “stealing their land” and “their minerals”, but they didn’t have the decency to develop technology to MINE their lands (yes, they TRADED arts and crafts in exchange for minerals!), or the put up notices or fences saying “this land is taken”. Indeed, they didn’t have writing. We are ruled by people who didn’t even invent the wheel by the time the very first colonialist appeared on the horizon. Sad, but true. So yes, it will work like SA democracy: People who have NO IDEA about the economy or the real world, decide ON BEHALF of people who do, purely by majority numbers.

      • Kgomo Ntsho

        Yes. And there will be nothing that you will do. As for 3) How can you even ask that? Which company attaches the property of the owner in the event that it fails? Because of the separation of legal identities, owners only lose their original investment in such a case. This means, there is no basis for you to even ask that.

        • Jannie MikeAlpha

          So, what you’re saying is, that blacks must sit on their asses and demand from hardworking citizens?

    • hernan cortez

      I worked in Sales in Silicon Valley, with many hot startups, I can say this is usually quiet standard, it is called an option pool, major companies like facebook, salesforce and other tech firms give employee ownership shares from a pool of stock set aside for employees. So I will answer how I’ve seen it work, or will expect it
      1) They share in the success or failure of the firm. if the firm fails, their stock falls to zero. If the firm pays out a big dividend or money is removed from the firm, they get their share. No you cannot reduce their salaries when you do not. It just doesn’t work that way. Mark Zuckerberg doesn’t reduce the salaries of all the employees because he didn’t take a salary in a certain time there is little or no profit.
      2) There is a capital pool set aside to begin with, which in this case would be 51%. Now if you give away 51% to employees, and another 5 more come on, then the % get reshuffled. It has not yet been clarified as to whose share will reduce. In the valley it was everyones at an equal rate
      3)Look at any large company where employees are owners. If salesforce fails tomorrow, will all of its thousands of employees own money to the bank? it doesn’t work that way, foolish thinking. The director/ceo will bare all the risk, someone with a tiny ownership share cannot bare risk, they have to little control to.
      4) Yes. So you’d be wise to educate them on the subject and open your books so they can see the numbers. And issue quarterely reports and hold conference calls or quarterly meetings. However, the labourers have a good sense of what the company needs because they are on the ground floor of it all. The problems start when managers hide numbers and figures for the whole year then spring on the employees how bad the firm is doing. Because everyone thought things were going well and they didn’t.

      • hairyback

        Except we’re not talking about fortune 500 companies, or hot silicon valley startups here. The DA’s entire focus is on building small to medium sized businesses and empowering black entrepreneurs, so you have to look at it in that context.

        The DA has said: while the company would benefit from the increases in productivity that OWNERSHIP confers. So they are not talking about giving a handful of shares to each employee out of a listed 165,000,000. Their focus is giving each employee a large enough portion of the pie to feel a vested interest in the company.
        What they are talking about here is essentially taking on multiple partners, without those partners baring any of the risk.
        Now if you want to do that in your small business, then great, And I’m sure it works in silicon valley where people are motivated, there are plenty of investors, You have to protect your highly qualified staff from poachers, and employers have rights, but you cannot force it on all businesses, and you have to take South Africa’s unique market into account.

        These are a few of the issues I have:
        1) If Joe has worked his ass off, saved a lot of money, put his house up as security for a loan to fund his business, and doesn’t take a salary every second month, so that he can build a successful business, then why should he be forced to “take on a partner” without that partner taking on some of the risk as well.
        2) why should Joe have to pay a dividend out of his profit. He hired someone to do a job for him, and agreed to pay them x amount to do it. It’s called a salary. Now in a free market you are free to decide if that salary is fair, and if it isn’t, then you are free to go and work for someone else. You are not entitled to anything else because you are already being compensated fairly for your work, as AGREED upon in your contract.
        3)Forcing this will actually stifle the market. What incentive is there for me to start a company, when I could just work for someone else, let them take all the risk, and still reap the same reward as the owner?

        Let me leave this here as food for thought. Will mr Maimane give shares in his house to his domestic worker, and pay her a portion of any profit that he makes from the sale of his house, because at the end of the day, she is his employee, and he should then follow the same policies that he will inflict on any other employer. When you break it down like this, you can start to see how ridiculous this whole thing is.

        • Well put and practical sample of why racial and communistic policies simply never work.

        • hernandayoleary2

          1. First you claimed the model was impractical and could not be feasible, I showed it is used at largest companies in the world, and STARTUPS. Some startups go bust, some startups never make a profit, some startups don’t go well, like every other business.
          2. How is the DA going to give 50 workers a large portion of the business? You can give 51% to the workers, that is 1% a worker.
          3. When you take on 50 partners, it is common sense that there will not be equal risk amongst partners. I already explained, when facebook loses money, the bank doesn’t go after the employees.
          4. The pools don’t transfer immediately, the worker has to be there for a while before he can leave and still make money from the shares.

          “These are a few of the issues I have:

          1) If Joe has worked his ass off, saved a lot of money, put his house up as security for a loan to fund his business, and doesn’t take a salary every second month, so that he can build a successful business, then it’s up to him to decide if he wants give some of his business away. If he doesn’t then he shouldn’t be forced to “take on a partner” without that partner taking on some of the risk as well. ”

          1) No, it is not up to him. His house is on African land, that his apartheid state stole, he has the privileged to work in this country and open a business he will follow our rules, the chinese have the same 51% ownership laws. Small partners are never expected to take on that level of risk. Do you really believe that every startup with a capital pool is saying its 10 new employees must sign onto the lease? It just doesn’t work that way in the real world.

          “2) why should Joe have to pay a dividend out of his profit. He hired someone to do a job for him, and agreed to pay them x amount to do it. It’s called a salary. Now in a free market you are free to decide if that salary is fair, and if it isn’t, then you are free to go and work for someone else. You are not entitled to anything else because you are already being compensated fairly for your work, as AGREED upon in your contract. ”

          Its not Joe’s profit, the profit belongs to all who participate in the company and South Africa belongs to all those who live in it. This is not the direction or culture that our nation has chosen to move in. South Africa is South Africa, it is not a blind casino free market. And you are also entitled to relocate to another nation if you do not like this nation’s laws. The workers are entitled to the profit of the company because they make the company profitable. Even the closest thing to free market, the silicon valley of usa recognizes this value of the workers.

          “3)Forcing this will actually stifle the market. What incentive is there for me to start a company, when I could just work for someone else, let them take all the risk, and still reap the same reward as the owner?”

          3) It has not stiffled those in the valley, which is the fastest growing region in the wEstern economic world. You as an employee among 51 employees sharing 51% of a firm, will not reap the same benefit as the one owner reaping 49% of the firm. The owner is reaping 49 times the profit as the employee is. And if there are 102 employees, then he reaps 98 times the average employee in equity. That sounds like a very good incentive to me. My understanding is this applies to companies with at least 10 employees and 1 million in revenue or so.

          “Let me leave this here as food for thought. Will mr Maimane give shares in his house to his domestic worker, and pay her a portion of any profit that he makes from the sale of his house, because at the end of the day, she is his employee, and he should then follow the same policies that he will inflict on any other employer. When you break it down like this, you can start to see how ridiculous this whole thing is.”

          Is his house a business? If not then I don’t see the justification for it. On the other hand, I could see a theoretical way that it could occur, ie, when the house is sold, the worker would get a share of the profit of the house of the appreciation in value. So if Maime buys his house for $500,000 and sells it 10 years later for $800,000. And there is $250,000 in profit, then a share of the profit could go to the workers.

      • Fred Johnson

        51% in the pool- I think not! You would be crazy.

        • hernandayoleary2

          Why is that.

          • Jannie MikeAlpha

            You want shares in my company? You PHUCCING PAY FOR IT. You work your ass
            off to bring business in or you can peace off back to the bush

          • hernandayoleary2

            You want to share in my country, and sell your products here, you pay for it. Don’t like it, back to your euro cave.

          • Jannie MikeAlpha

            You can suck my dick, you khunt. It is not your country. You looted middle africa, now you try it here. Phuck off back onto your mother’s ass

      • Dreigorian

        Well I see optimism here at it’s best, in a country destroyed in less than a few years you wan’t to compare to countries that are of first class…the best solution to all the problems is invest outside to countries that does not have huge chipping on the shoulders and does not feel entitled to everything…register your company outside sa, invest outside, hell outsource if possible outside then you don’t have to worry about things like entitlementsyndrome which hernan have great experience in.

        • hernandayoleary2

          Well, it works in silicon valley, it works in china, it should work here.

          • Jannie MikeAlpha

            PHUUKK BEE and AA, phukk taxes to a useless government advocating white
            genocide. My money is good for taxes, but my life is not good for the
            country. The anc and eff can absolutely go eff themselves

          • hernandayoleary2

            Who says your life is worthless? You want in sA you follow our rules or go back to where you come from.

          • Jannie MikeAlpha

            Go hump your mother

      • BEE in SA is not structured this say at all so your comments are very misplaced.Share schemes are not BEE. 76% direct ownership plus is BEE and that’s why it has not and will never work. Entrepreneurial initiatives are not to give away control of your efforts anf hence the already 60% deindustrialisation of SA overt the past decade. Communism is dead

        • Robert Dixon

          Share “schemes”ARE BEE in SA when mbete is handed a bundle of shares – for what, exactly?

        • hernandayoleary2

          Your comment is not clear, reword it

      • Leon van Rensburg

        Zappos and I think Facebook as well and perhaps many other startups gave shares to employees when they could not afford to pay them. They were either paid a lot less or were not paid at all. Not all employees other than the startup or initial employees get shares.

        Plus you have to factor into your argument that should something like that be done in SA then we will need to look at our policy framework including how debt is structured and especially the Labour laws should be relaxed. We must also reduce the penalties for failure tremendously for the DA’s plan to even remotely have a chance.

        And then of course they need to get more than double the support they currently get.

        Besides, employee stock options have not been very successful in SA either. Mostly because of our Labour Laws. Mmusi did his MBA, and he probably had an American textbook.

  • NosySnoopy

    The DA is just like the ANC v2 and just because the ANC messed up years of BBBEE and AA doesn’t mean we should start from scratch again. Will this ever end?

    • AfricanJedi

      when the whites do NOT own 80% of the JSE.

      • michael wilson

        According to the JSE themselves black South Africans hold at least 23% of the top 100 JSE listed companies. White South Africans hold 22% and foreign investors 39%. I can give you the link to that official info if you would like. South Africans are the best in the world at excuses.

        • Warchylde

          whahahahaha, now that’s a burn…. Love it when they come with the propaganda

        • hernan cortez

          That is misleading, those 39% foreigners are wealthy billionaire white south africans who live in switzerland.

          • michael wilson

            Yeah Hernan, from your thumb to God’s ear.

          • Dreigorian

            shame these white devils that created to much wealth, shucks I cannot get there because the chip on the shoulder is too damn big.

      • hairyback

        Well then do what those whites did and go buy some shares, and grow them. Stop waiting for a handout.

        • Zolaan

          F&^%EN WELL SAID!

      • Simon

        You say ‘the whites’. I don’t ‘own’ anything in the JSE other than VERY indirectly via retirement annuities, pensions, that kind of thing. You make it seem like EVERY white person is some kind of trader and is a major corporate player – this isn’t the case, obviously, not to mention that the facts of ‘ownership’ of the JSE are very much against your knee-jerk statement. Don’t let reality intrude though….

      • bengine

        Who are the whites? Is this some club I was not aware of.
        “The” Whites – sounds like a nefarious group of no-gooders – who belongs to this – do you have to be white or are all whites included.
        If you are born white do you immediately belong to this group – would be nice I could get my slice of that 80%

        Wake up AfricanJedi – you are being played – race is being used to divide people – it is an old tactic and anyone with brains can see in this world the problem is not “The Whites” but a small group of super wealthy people (who are predominantly white) who screw everyone equally for their own benefit regardless of colour.

        If you want to sort things out – stop this petty bigotry and focus on the real problem so that we can sort it out – right now you are just a spanner in the wheel.

      • iandoug

        I think you will find that insurance companies (who get contributions from the entire population) own/control large chunks of the stock exchange, on behalf of their clients (who, to repeat, are from the entire population).

        • Life insurance companies, pension funds and unit trusts make up a major part of the 23% black-shareholding thumb-suck figure, and probably also a significant part of the “white” one as well. I am personally surprised that the foreign share ownership is given as being as low as 39%.
          Then there’s the question of double counting on market size: eg Anglo American is a large part of the market capitalisation, while their principal function is to own shares in other companies that are also listed … and it probably extends yet more levels of the same thing.

      • Dreigorian

        that will happen when you get 100% chip of the shoulder gone…shame

  • bengine

    “Leading commentators in the country have expressed misgivings (????) about the
    ability of the current BEE policy to lead to real broad-based black
    economic empowerment.”

    Leading commentators? – my 12 year old son figured that out. Some of us figured it out before it before it was implemented.

    Good to know we have leading commentators that can lay this out for us otherwise we would be totally in the dark …

    The policy should be one of upliftment targeting anyone who is from a disadvantaged community – using the word black is a problem and not sustainable.

    Given the majority of qualifiers are already black – the problem will resolve itself naturally but will not disqualify people from other communities that are on the poor list.

    True economic empowerment is through education. Fix the damn education system and put tons of cash aside to give kids from poor areas a shot – and then do it again and again and again and again – each time making the system better until you get it right.

    • Fred Johnson

      Agree,, they must admit their mistakes and get back to basics- retrain most of the teachers first.

  • charles

    Wait a minute…. first it says BEE wont be according to race and then goes onto just saying black black black… seems this DA has reacted to my trolling them about BEE and now they answer me with gunk like this…. now I ask the question once again… why see entrepreneurs battle to create and grow their own companies before they can employ people IF there is already a market that is being strangled to death which once upon a time employed more people than black businesses presently or ever will…. your argument of apartheid blah blah blah was answered this week when it was said that foreigners must share their secrets to business… it only says one thing… black man is not intetested in business… he is interested in fancy clothes, a BMW and Jack Daniels the minute he gets a loan to start a business… there is no interest in growing a business, there is only interest in looking the part… maybe the DA should teach the black people that not all people were put on this earth to wear designer clothes but must look at our farmers that today still wear the same khaki clothes even though they do own their own businesses… its sorry that black man beliefs that the above luxuries bring respect and gives them bragging rights when their business has not even put head above water… but getting back… destroy BEE, let the companies that did once employ 1000s continue to do so, let those companies franchise to black only people ajd let the system grow that way… your idea of letting the baby do the business while dad sits at home wont work… baby will eat all the profit while dad dies of hunger… Mr DA… I hope that explains a lot to you… btw… go work on those wet dream new ideas of yours… they still wont work…

    • Billy

      I agree 100% Charles. I get this distinct feeling that the DA whom I so diligently have supported throughout its existence is turning ANC. WTF

      • Jon Low

        No, they’re not. They’re simply turning away from their previous pussyfooting around wrongs and rights.

        • Jannie MikeAlpha

          Total shyte, maimane cant stand on his own 2 hind legs

          • Jon Low

            Any evidence of that?

          • Jannie MikeAlpha

            Yes, dumb ass, here it is: (Your useless leader can’t even comment after he shot himself in the nuts)

            Chat conversation start12 January 21:31So, Mr Maimane, when will your political party persue ANY criminal cases of racism and blatant instigation of genocide on white citizens of this country? The following is just one article of what is in newspapers daily.


            And then the little racist puppet of Maimane had this to say:

            Everybody wants to score a few votes and voters for the upcoming elections, but nobody wants to take this person to court. He sings kill the boer, kill the farmer, bring my machine gun, etc, blames whites for everything that he destroys, but so far the DA is just on the sideline, not doing too much? A true leader will pursue him and see to it that he spends the rest of his life in jail. The DA were quick to jump on the Penny Sparrow story (I personally know she is wrong in what she said), but black on white racism is something I can’t recall the DA has ever addressed in the shape of a criminal case against a person or specific party. Nor has the DA ever mentioned any case about Julius Malema for openly advocating the murdering of whites, and farmers as a whole. What is your party planning to do about it?

            Zuma fuels racial hatred against whites in South Africa

            “President Zuma promotes racial divisions and fuels racial hatred with his comments that land is the cause of poverty, inequality and unemployment and that the land in South Africa was stolen. With these remarks Zuma targets whites in South Africa as if they are the cause of poverty, inequality and…

            southafricatoday.net13 January 16:34

            Hi Steyn

            The Democratic Alliance condemns all forms all racism. Attitudes of such vitriolic racism have absolutely no place in South Africa.

            We unfortunately do not have the resources to take up all theses cases but urge you to to report any content of this nature and lay a charge of Crimen Iniuria for infringing your dignity as South African citizen where appropriate.

            Racists are not welcome in the DA, and have no place in our democratic South African society


            ANd then:

            13 January 18:22

            So basically what your are saying, is that you currently will allow your president and Julius Malema to carry on with his hate speeches and instigation of murder against whites, because you dont have “funds” to open cases against these racists? But you have funds to jump on the Penny Sparrow bandwagon, since she made racist remarks against black people? That’s all we wanted to know, thank you so much for clearing up where the DA alliance lay.


            This is then basically fine with the DA? Penny Sparrow is more important to persue than this racist person? He openly admits killing whites and farmers. And your party keep quiet about it?

            Not a word about this. Married to some liberal white woman, but cannot stand up for whites. Do you need more evidence?

          • Jon Low

            Who the hell is this “Bongani”? And where is the smoking gun in Maimane’s hand? But it simply isn’t sensible to behave like a crazy dog and chase madly after every truck that comes driving down the road. Crimes can be reported by ANYONE — including you. And it’s a call by the NPO as to whether they will prosecute the case or not. So, why haven’t YOU laid any formal charges? And why hasn’t the party you support done so? And who has “openly admitted killing whites and farmers”? Where’s your evidence for this egregious slander?

            Why should he “stand up for whites” as if this whiteness is deserving of extra-special attention?

          • Jannie MikeAlpha

            Ask your mother when my dog is done with her

          • Jon Low

            You lose, loser.

    • Victor Schutte

      I too would have voted (again)for the DA, but not anymore. BEE is an unfair process painted to the world as the only fair process.

      Here is my analogy. You have a class with 30 children. 3 of them are fairly smart, they get the highest marks, get awarded prizes and get invited to various functions. The other 27 are excluded. Depending on which side you stand this might seem unfair or fair. Now the 27 revolt against this system and change the rules. The plan is to uplift the 27 to reach the standard (e.g. better tutoring, introducing a faster learning path, etc.). But this does not work. The 3 top students still perform better than the rest. With the new system 1 to 2 of the 27 start performing better but the rest still fail. The system is now adjusted to target the 3 top students. They cannot attend class anymore, text books are taken away and their exams are rigged. The 3 students are intelligent and adapt. As punishment 1 student gets expelled and the other 2 are penalized by only being allowed to get up to 49% as final mark. The other 25 students still fail and now demand that the 2 remaining top students be expelled and the marks be redistributed among the 27 disadvantaged students. But now, with the top students eventually gone, the good teachers resign, no more prizes are sponsored and nobody gives a damn about the class anymore. The actual solution is to lift the skills level so that the 27 students can reach the required standard, not redistribute the 3 top students marks.

      The sad fact is that the ANC ( and now DA) sold the false fact to the black population that if they take all from the <10% whites that their lives will be permanently better. I am white and live month to month. The ANC can take my house and give it to a black family (or 9 to 10 families if it is to be fair). My house is comfortable and liveable because I do constant maintenance on it. Without maintenance I could just as well break it down and make fire with the thatching (which is the end result when I am thrown out). They can take all my assets, which I am still paying off, and explain to the banks why they are not going to get their money. They can take my job and with that take away the chance of transferring my skills to a group of black people.

      I know black people are scared that if the whites are left uncontrolled that apartheid might return. But that bis exactly it

      • Jon Low

        The Afrikaans word for “affirmative action” is much more apt and accurate than the English one. It’s “regstellende aksie”. Or, translated literally, “right-making action”.

        It implicitly acknowledges that something was once wrong that now needs to be “made right”.

        There can be no disputing that wrongdoings needs to be righted.

        • Dreigorian

          So you are saying japan must drop 2 nukes on the USA? Jews should massacre millions of germans? Britain should creates it’s own hitler…grow up please this the the 21st century, when will africa ever leave the stone age…

          • Jon Low

            Don’t be silly. Hiroshima was a war target after the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor. The “making right” of Nazi atrocities against Jews was, inter alia, the creation of the new state of Israel and the Nuremberg Trials. Those errors have been corrected.

          • Dreigorian

            uh no you obviously have no clue what happened in WWII…I’m not even going to continue, but it does say a lot about you character, how many died at Pearl Harbor vs Hiroshima and Nagasaki again?

          • Jon Low

            Hiroshima & Nagasaki cost about 140000 lives — about the same number as Dresden. But in a war you don’t win or lose by the death toll inflicted or suffered. The aggressor gets his just desserts.

          • Random

            Jon I agree with you. Comparing myself to a black person of the same age I have most certainly benefitted 10 times over. My parents had a hard life but not as hard as that of labourers as most young black people’s parents were/are. I went to decent public schools, we were able to have a balanced diet, I was fortunate enough to go to varsity twice etc.
            I cannot deny these advantages. Nor can I deny having been pruned mentally from kindergarten to unleash my abilities – this is something many have not had the privilege of and which greatly stunts their performance at their horrible schools.
            While many white people can say that they have worked their arse off for what they have, myself included, we have had an extremely unfair advantage. How do you correct this? How do you make it a fair world while their parents don’t know any better (they don’t or can’t save and can’t afford to provide for their kids in an identical manner as white kids parents do)?

            Perhaps an ideal solution would be to confiscate their children and raise them via surrogates or a camp that can replicate what a white child is given and experiences. Also the parents would need to be refused contact as this would interfere with the progress…

          • Dreigorian

            And you my friend will forever be naive and primitive, you see not even animals think like this, and it says a lot about your morale values.

          • Jon Low

            Acts of war are just that — acts of war. War involves people dying. Not all of them combatants.

        • charles

          Wrong made right?? Please explain to us all what have the “wronged” done to to right anything except to wrong the right?? Lets ask you another question.. who trekked from trekked from the Cape, was it the rich or the poor? Let ask another question Mr Low… how can right be wrong if wrong never did anything for himself? How can what I worked for be yours if you havent worked a day in your life to try to achieve/obtain to get what is mine? How can you lay claim to whats mine if you and I both are standed in the desert, I build an oasis and you lie under your makeshift home and wait for me to finish my project? Come now Mr Low tell me why if you are goven land and education water and electricity for free and I on my side have to pay for exactly that AND I still rise up and become a wealthy man even after having to contribute to your livelihood am I the one that is wrong? Now for a last one Mr Low or a 2nd last one anyway… why is it that 2 men both wronged by your statement.. one becomes a success and the other, well he lays around and has no intentions of trying, why is the lazy one a wronged party? Then Mr Low… tell me why oh why Mr Low why when Mr wrong has the opportunity to better his life and those around him does he not do this, he as I said buys the world of luxury and doesnt share or distribute his gains, why is it then still expected of your Mr right to still continue to be the right when wrong now has the ability to he Mr right?…but anyway your statement sucks… go to any mall or clothing store, any checkers, any Spur and show me one white person… when according to you will the wrong be right and right be wrong because according to me there are more wrongs than rights enjoying the luxuries of life presently… the middle class of the wrongs exceed the number of rights at present or will the few rights always be the victim, the excuse for the multitude of wrongs that refuse to lift their backsides to do something for themselves… Unfortunately the system of the past did do wrong… they createda people that received almost all for free and that today has turned into entitlement today… today its called grants which is bankrupting this govt but anyways… wrong will always be right and right wrong as long as the is a wrong feels wronged and right prospers..

          • Jon Low

            If you misapply correction, you take “making right” past the proper droop of the pendulum over the the other side, where the intended correction again becomes incorrect.

            So it IS possible to make a wrong into another wrong. And that’s not right.

            That’s what’s happening in SA. AA is misapplied. It must not be abandoned and leaving the wrong uncorrected. It should by applied correctly so that the wrong is corrected too.

      • Fred Johnson

        Agreed. But until the patient admits he is ill he will not get any better. Arrogance reigns and lack of ability continues it.

      • Dreigorian

        I have a solution to any party that are racist which wants to implement BEE of all sorts and flavors, there are more or less 4.5 million whites living in sa today, Give each one of them enough funds to immigrate to their devilish colonial countries or other 1st world countries, then you don’t have to implement BEE and can start implementing CEE, problem solved.

        • Well Clem Sunter’s scenario shows that by 2030 the emigration momentun and low breeding rates of Whites will leave SA without a tax base at this rate. So SA will be another African failed state if his clearly simple maths inputs persist.

        • Robert Dixon

          Give me (and any other whites that wish to live elsewhere) enough money to qualify to emigrate to the country of my choice.
          That will get rid of all the whites, and to pay for this the ANC can borrow even more.

          Will SA flourish once the whites have left?
          Not at all, SA will simply have dropped all the way to the level of almost every country in Africa.
          Promised paradise, disappointed by politicians, still can’t understand why it all went down instead of up!

      • Chris Despy

        You would be a FOOL to transfer your skills as that will bite you in the arse as you are replaced to fill the BEE quota. Based on your skin colour there is no reason why you need to be employed is the NEW EQUALITY

      • Erlo Muhl

        Your story has got something true to it actually is very true

      • Wessel Cronje


    • Markus

      The majority of the poor are black, so why not? At least DA will not allow wealthy black people to keep benefiting as the ANC does.

      • Jannie MikeAlpha

        You have no idea how useless the da is.

        • Jon Low

          Evidence, please?

  • Witte Boer

    Anybody still believing the DA is any different from the ANC on discriminating against whites should wake up. They are just 2 decades behind. They are already purging the whites from the party.

    • Billy

      No truer words spoken

    • Peter

      I agree 100% but I think you left out step number ONE and that is to replace the current ineptocratic government.

  • Witte Boer

    The only system that will create jobs is where merit only applies. That will make the economy grow. But that won’t happen as the melanined folk already admitted that they will never be able to compete on merit.

    • Fred Johnson

      Perhaps the ANC should have looked for& kept the good. Then started with getting the ‘basics’ right instead of wasting the countries money, assets and skills.

  • AnRkey

    You can’t fix the problem by employing a racist policy like BEE!

  • newsens
  • Dum Spiro

    Mmusi Maimane is another deluded socialist. He does not realise that BEE and AA have reduced the SA economy to near junk status. No tinkering with it will improve the situation. Soon there will be no jobs to give to his favoured race – black people. He should look across the border at Zimboland and see the results of persecuting whites.

    • HughRobinson

      that will not happen so the vote should go to those who will see the reality and not false promise that turns to dust.

    • Jon Low

      BEE and AA have not done anything of the sort. The SA economy is the victim of several contributory factors in a vicious downward spiral.

      It is overwhelmingly a price-taker in global primary commodities markets — meaning that the economy is heavily dependent on selling raw, unprocessed goods, like mineral ores and bulk farm produce at whatever price the world markets are prepared to pay. (The buyers then process this into consumer goods in their developed manufacturing/industrial sectors and sell the expensive finished products back to SA consumers.)

      Under the sanctions and boycotts of the apartheid era, SA was prevented from buying a substantial quantity of finished products as foreign firms saw sales to SA as bad corporate public relations among their home consumers. SA operated a semi-siege economy, manufacturing many things locally without much economy of scale — television sets, razor blades, light-bulbs, etc.

      When apartheid ended and the semi-siege lifted, lots of these locally-made items were much more expensive to buy than the now freely-available cheaper imports. And so the local factories closed down, because they were uncompetitive.

      And part of this uncompetitiveness can be attributed to woefully-poor management who had grown flabby behind their tariff walls and government subsidies. For them, the easy answer to any sagging bottom line was just to lay off more staff and save via a smaller payroll. Of course, fewer staff means lower production. And lower production means less profit. The idea of upskilling staff with better training, supervision, incentivisation and equipping — leading to higher productivity — was just too hard. A few dozen layoffs is so quick and easy a way to save money.

      • Dum Spiro

        Ah! that victimhood argument again!

        So you think that our mailaise in SA is the fault of those dastardly whites and foreigners, not reverse Apartheid. Are you sure? Does your thesis explain the failure (to put it mildly) of SAA, Eskom, PRASA, PetroSA, the mines, private industry etc? And your proffered excuse that this was caused by the whites and foreigners and not BEE etc.

        Quote facts to support your arguments not just speculative opinion.

        Eksdom went as far as to promote the idea that it needed to employ blacks and especially black women (some black women where imported by Eksdom from the USA to fill its self-imposed quotas), rather than produce affordable electricity.

        • Jon Low

          When ideologues replace pragmatists, errors are bound to be made. Big ones. A good idea badly applied results in bad outcomes.

          • Fred Johnson

            A fact too often repeated in SA!

      • Fred Johnson

        Sorry Jon. I’m all for uplifting people but the lack of work ethic is a factor that only good management and plenty time can partially rectify. The horse has to be willing to drink!

        • Jon Low

          A good work-ethic is something inculcated by good managers. It does not come packaged in your DNA.

  • HughRobinson

    I hope the DA will be reading this feedback. Right off there are currently about 50 programmes that benefit so called ‘indigenous’ blacks only. How about we scrap the lot and open the economy to real entrepreneurship for all and gain all the related benefit?
    My take on this is, Working as I have with black business mentorship, it has shown that few sustainable jobs have created now that the government small contract market has become saturated. White, coloured, to a lessor extent indian service industry are the bigger permanent job creators out side their own race.
    The other problem is people who have never tried to run their own business try school those who are developing. In SA most may hold degrees, run huge corporations but they are EMPLOYEES and will fail in the real world.
    Then there should be a paragon shift in freedom of employment and a reigning in on the power of the unions which have in SA tended to destroy not create employment.

  • Wernher Stoltz

    The DA has no plan. They are as clueless as the ANC.
    This is just more of the same. The only way is to get rid of BEE altogether and incentivize companies to generate jobs. We cannot win by taking from some and giving to others. That way we all become poorer. Grow the economy and we will all be better off.
    Lazy people and people without innovation will always be poor in any case. Now we are all losing.
    The sorry state of our economy proves it.

    • hairyback

      They’re all fighting over a piece of pie when there’s a damn bakery behind them.

      • TheBoss ™©

        I’m a thief now too… I’m stealing that Comment !o!
        A Very Good One I Must Say

      • Fred Johnson

        I like it,, says a lot!

  • charles

    Mmusi… by all accounts… what experience exceot for beibg black do you have or does for some reason in this country make you capable of making such decisions… your DA is selling lucky packets at discount price to attract black support by sacrificing whites, by denying whites their constitutional right, their global right to exist, to provide for themselves and their families. You are basically saying that its ok to close a company which employs 100 men and then telling those 100 men they are now at their own devises to create their own businesses which sounds good but with SAs track record only about 1 will be succeful and 99 will be jobless, foodless and broke.. oh wait lets make that 98 because that one will employ his buddy at half the salary he was earning to slave for his friend… as somebody else said… BEE is killing SA… BEE has taught SA that you can sell a R2.00 pen for R20.00 and worst of all is the man selking that R2.00 pen caught on and is now selling it for R15.00… great… now nobody can afford that pen… YOU ARE KILLING SA with you ANC indoctrination… your true colours are starting to shine through…

  • Lone Stranger

    I am all for BEE, but the one thing I can’t accept is that a company owner should just give half his company to some person, without that person contributing to half of the company debt and capital.

    If this can fall away, I can say it is fair.

  • Brian

    When South Africa gets the “handout” mentality out of their minds we might start to become a more competitive nation internationally which will improve the economy for all. Let the most competitive win. Having said that, the DA still gets my vote because the options spell disaster.

  • Jan Engelbrecht

    I want to bring in murder charges

  • Pieter

    So the DA is turning into the next racist party. Black black black ? Do you realise how you insult black people with all this BEE special treatment? What you and the anc are saying is that black people cannot achieve something on their own, they need special treatment. What you are saying is; because they are black they need help. You are wrong, there are thousands of successful black business people in South Africa who made it big time by putting in some effort, who grew up in shacks, during apartheid and still made it big without been treated like special cases. Your very own Herman Mashaba comes to mind. I wish political parties like anc and DA will stop pretending that black people are inferior and that they need special treatment.

  • the-TRUTH

    Former ANC treasurer has already stated that the ANC’s current BEE incentive programme isn’t doing what it’s supposed to – BEE benefits Black South Africans the least. The TRUTH is that the current system of Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) only benefits a small elite (mostly ANC affiliated comrades), leaving the majority of black (non-ANC affiliated) South Africans out in the cold. I believe the current BEE incentive programme and tenderpreneurship are the reason why economic growth in South Africa lags so far behind other emerging countries…

  • Joel Jenkinson

    A noble attempt from the DA, however they are approaching this in the same way that the ANC did, this issue is not going to resolve it’s self over night by simply giving responsibility to those who have never had it before. Regardless of their race, if you offer someone a position or responsibility that they cannot handle, but give them a substantial pay increase with it, they will take it not caring about the repercussions. Once again this delema is approached as a race issue and not an educational issue. They are trying to level the playing field by making the requirements for a black person to get into management /ownership less than that of a white person. One should rather let the market run its self while we use the funds generated by a free market to build a good educational system.
    This issue is not going to fix it’s self over night and we should get our head out the clouds and stop acting as if it will.
    This will take atleast one full generation of good education before the standard can be raised and equalised.

    The terms black and white when dealing with different groups in the market should completely be done away with. They should be referred to as affluent, substantial income and minimum wage sectors. The colour of your skin does in no way determine your income or potential income, your work ethic and education are what matter most.

  • Dion Benny

    Sorry DA you are not getting any support from me anymore. Dont promise an open nonracial society then proceed to carry on with racist laws that have not worked pre 1994 nor post 1994. And this for votes. ANC lite. No principles.

    That coloured vote that gave you Cape Town and a podium will not be supporting you anymore. We’re not blind to how we are being forced out of the WCape. The ANC has 8 provinces and they still cant deliver. There is absolutely no reason we have to move for the sake of the black populace’s inability to change their votes. ANC lost Wcape, so will the DA. You can go run in the Ecape or Gauteng.

    • Erlo Muhl

      You’ve experienced what I also feel strong about

  • BEE has not and will not work anywhere in any form as its downright racist. It adds another layer of costs and entitlement making SA goods uncompetitive. DA should be focusing on figuring out how to grow the economy by at least 7% for a decade that will result in work for all. I will not support any racist party.

    • Erlo Muhl

      I agree please read wat I have just posted

  • Greg_Shark

    Sorry MM but your interpretation and view of workable BEE also has major flaws.

    1. You only seem to be looking at this subject from the BIG corporate perspective i.e. they have ‘boards’… small business does not operate under that umbrella.

    2. Employee ownership does not automatically increase productivity. It will grow black equity but equity has value so how do you believe there will be a transfer of value?

    3. The growing of skills, expertise, etc is cost based. Again this is aimed at big business, in small business this happens on the job as a management function. There are already setas collecting funds but skill training seems not to be their objective. How do small businesses afford an expensive roll out this? How will you monitor it and award value to status?

    4. Reward companies for growing workforce – in a very depressed economic environment maybe only export orientated companies could remotely achieve this. Then, just how big does the workforce become before the cost of production exceeds the sales income?

    5. I could go on and on….

    Rather a ‘poverty’ based system would better serve RSA considering that it is so widely reported that all whites are filthy rich. At least a poverty criteria would be “broad based” and work from the bottom up, creating broad wealth that is then available for spending or entrepreneurial activity

  • Chris Despy

    Mmusi has had first hand experience in the differences of Black students versus the minorities as he schooled in a model C where he had the same teacher and opportunity as all other pupils, This experience has formed his mind set the all black pupils must be protected from other minority students that must be superior in some ways that he backs a LAW that will disadvantage his fellow students based on there skin colour. Do not think you can apply your inequality and it will not be recognised as such. Shame on you and the DA for allowing the party to become another RACIST party that sees only POVERTY of one skin colour. SHAME SHAME SHAME you are also destined to be a failure at an Equal opportunity Country, Where we can expect more blunders like ESCOM failure to order coal for all its Power Stations, Ordering of Trains that do fit our Tracks, Failure to service drinking water I will leave this long list of Failure by BEE and the ANC as the BLIND who cannot see when there elected representatives steal there futures from them, deserve all the suffering they have brought upon themselves. Oil is the cheapest it has been for over a decade and we are having an INCREASE in the petrol price….. What failure this ANC party has bought to the shores of South Africa. For once understand the Truth is not the ENEMY.

  • daniel

    AA, BBEE, EE are all tools of discrimination against whites, conveniently ignoring the fact that white children born in South Africa ,who could not have been involved with apartheid have to take the brunt for it, and yet Chinese and Indians who recently arrived in South Africa are the beneficiaries of these laws, is that justice served?.

  • Erlo Muhl

    I thought you the D.A. want to eliminate racism. Any BEE system is race based and wrong. Free enterprise and good educational possibilities for all, with if necessary some government help is nation building. Help people to obtain personal title deeds of all race groups, 21 years of BEE is overdue. The people leaving school and university and apprenticeships nowadays have nothing to do with pre 1994 government practices. Don’t think you will make those proud that you seem to think need BEE, pride comes with achievement and those that you will breed with extended BEE will still feel minor, which most have already overcome that have tried to, and those that haven‘t can overcome, if given the chance and all are treated the same. Government interference in business never creates progress but is always counterproductive. Cut out all this interference by government in business and most people will have jobs, because then employment opportunities will grow. And don’t have quotas on Government jobs and you will see how South Africa will become a place to invest, for foreigners. Good luck to you D A, before you make a mass of our country.

  • Jannie MikeAlpha

    Too lazy to work. Let’s take away from the hard working whites, implement white genocide, steal the land they legally PAID for and give it to a bunch of oxygen thieves. Welcome to africa

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