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No longer just talk – South Africans really are leaving the country

No longer just talk – South Africans really are leaving the country

The recent credit downgrades by Fitch and Standard & Poor’s ratings agencies, and the potential effects of junk status, has wealthy South Africans seriously reviewing the available options for diversifying their personal interests and investment assets beyond the country’s borders.

“We’ve certainly noticed an increase in local enquiries in the last couple of weeks,” said Nigel Barnes, managing partner at citizenship planning consultancy, Henley & Partners.

“I think that concerns over the future growth and development of South Africa, and uncertainty about the sustainability of sectors, such as education, is finally driving South Africans to assess their alternatives in earnest.

“In short, they are now acting on their concerns, rather than just voicing them among family and friends.”

Citing Intergate Immigration consultancy, TimesLive earlier this month reported that inquiries about emigration shot up by 250% the day after president Jacob Zuma’s cabinet reshuffle announcement.

“There’s a definite increase in people that are leaving. Profoundly, in the last two to three weeks. The day after the reshuffle our inquiries went up by 250%.”

Read: South Africans are looking for a Plan B option after junk status rating

According to Barnes, the current trends are really just an uptick on what has been a steadily growing local interest in investment migration over the last few years.

He pointed out that it was this rising demand for alternative citizenship that prompted Henley & Partners to launch a regional branch in SA towards the end of 2016.

Barnes said that, of late, there has been a particularly significant increase in enquiries from High Net Worth Individuals (HNWIs) from other African countries.

“This is hardly remarkable given that the continent’s citizens are, on the whole, the most restricted in the world when it comes to movement,” he said.

Where are they going?

Of the several international investment-migration options currently endorsed by Henley & Partners, the Malta Individual Investor Program (MIIP) is the most successful of its kind in the world, and one of the most popular with South Africans, said Barnes.

A Maltese passport offers its holder the right of settlement in all 28 EU countries as well as
Switzerland.

“For those seeking European citizenship that can be passed down unlimited family generations (even dependent parents aged 65 and older may be included in the application), this is a very attractive programme – and the only one of its kind to be sanctioned by the EU.”

The citizenship-by- investment programmes offered by some of the island nations in the Caribbean, which are among the most competitive in the world, have no residence or visitation requirements at all, Barnes said.

Read: Not only whites desperate to leave South Africa

According to Henley & Partners, a St Lucian passport can be obtained from as little as US$100,000, and it grants visa-free access to 127 countries, including the EU’s Schengen area, the UK, Singapore and Hong Kong.

Grenadian citizenship, meanwhile, requires a capital outlay of between US$200,000 and US$350,000 (property investment), and offers unrestricted access to 124 countries, including the UK, the Schengen area, Brazil, China and other key markets.

The country also holds an E-2 Investor Visa treaty with the US, allowing citizens to be eligible to apply for a non-immigrant visa.

“Neither programme has any residency or visitation requirements, and processing for either passport can take less than four months. And, as with Malta, citizenship is transferable by descent,” said Barnes.


Read: The cheapest countries for South Africans to buy citizenship and emigrate to in 2017


BusinessTech's Staff Writer is directly plugged into the South African Internet backbone, and spits out press releases and other news as they receive it. They are believed to be cl...
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  • Madimetsha

    So a rise in inquiries means people are leaving?

    They just checking their options

    • John Phoenix

      Believe what you will, people have stopped talking the talk, and are starting to walk the walk.

      • OnceBitten2

        Did it 3 years ago, it is hard, but you settle in over time. Don’t miss the crime and hijackings!

        • Barbara Sattler

          Don’t worry you will make it. I left 33 years ago.

        • John Phoenix

          What is the toughest part? Missing the people or the places? Or is it the cultural adjustment?

          • OnceBitten2

            Missing my family, braai’s and days without rain. Rains here in the UK non stop, 4 seasons in a day! Also miss all the beautiful holiday destinations in RSA, and proper waves in a warm Indian ocean,

          • John Phoenix

            Rsa is an amazing country, just too bad that some of the people can’t see eye to eye. Thanks for your honesty, gives some of us a heads up about what to prepare for.

          • Marco

            I emigrated to Portugal 3 years ago and got on the Non Habitual Residency (NHR) tax regime whereby I pay no tax for 10 years.
            Weather and the beaches are tops but we miss our boerie rolls and chutney.

          • Ash

            Marco, what are the requirements to get on Portugal’s NHR tax regime as a South African? Sounds like a nice alternative.

          • Marco

            a) Golden visa. This gives you and your family residence permits and allows you to travel Europe freely. After 2 years you all get permanent residence and after 5 years you can apply for citizenship. Tax is fixed at 28%.
            The downside is that you have to buy property worth €500K to €280K depending on the age of the building and area.
            Your whole family can all chip in.

            b) If one spouse has an European passport then you merely enter and apply for NHR status. Cost is zero and you pay no tax for 10 years. If you “formally” emigrate via SARS and SARB then you pay no tax anywhere for 10 years. This is what I did.

          • Ash

            Do British passports work the same as European passports for b) ?

          • Marco

            For the next 2 years…yes. The UK is still an EU member state. Portugal will not deport the large number of Brits as they add a large amount to the fiscus. After 2 years you get “permanent residency” anyway.

          • Aristophanes

            You really do need to come back, and soon. The last the UK needs is another Saffer whinger who can’t get off his fat backside and find the fantastic things to do there and particularly in Europe. Tell me, do you still wear your Bok jersey on the weekends? Boksburg Needs You!!!!!

          • OnceBitten2

            Obviously a Londoner Remoaner, pretending to be a South African citizen . Ps, I weigh 9 stone so don’t have a fat backside, you must be talking about yourself in front of the “telly” all day, scoffing chocolates and living off benefits, paid by my taxes to the British government to support your fat ass and no job through lack of intelligence or contribution to society, as the Brits say, “go do one!”

          • Aristophanes

            No, I’m actually living in Cape Town and commuting to London when the need arises. And at ‘nine stone’ I’d certainly question your credentials – it’s 57kg in real weight. Maybe you’re actually a pommie Poisoned Dwarf Troll? Or are you another Bokkie that used to get down to Addington Beach every Xmas and considers that the height of human success? Whatever, if you haven’t been able to enjoy the delights of Europe you’re a really sad case that should get back here pronto. Boksburg Needs You!

          • I recently moved to the USA. There are often Facebook groups for South Africans living in whatever city you’re living in. We’ve got a local group here in Tucson, and we have get-togethers a few times a year, there’s someone who makes and sells biltong, boerewors and droewors. There’s an annual potjiekos competition in Texas too. Lots of Saffers abroad.

        • Guy

          Whered you go to? Im in the IT finance sector. Would also like to emmigrate after getting hijacked for the 3rd time this year

          • zunai andre

            Come to Miami,but please try to be from any other country.Once you say South Africa,hmmm not pretty looks.Some stigma we receive down here unfortunately.

          • YouDontEvenKnowMe

            Stupid Yankees believe everything on cnn

        • Marc Eden

          I traveled for 15 years, and of that time i lived 5 years in London and it gets just as hot, plenty sunshine. Yes it does rain and snow. It rains in South Africa. Living in the UK is the same as South Africa. Fly from the UK to Spain for beautiful holiday destinations.

    • Frik De Wet

      From my own personal experience. Friends, family and business associates. There has been quite a large exodus of really skilled and talented people in the last 2-3 years, with a strong resurgence in the last few months with Zuma and his destructive politics.

      Not just checking their options, but actually going through application processes to other countries, putting their homes up for sale etc etc.

    • Fanandala

      The last time I had my drivers license renewed. Playing musical chairs there in Plantation Rd. Ottery, Somebody struck up a conversation and it turned out that nearly everybody had kids or siblings somewhere overseas. I think about 30 percent of the crowd was white and the rest nonwhite. I suppose some of them will come back, but I am sure, most of them will not.

    • LegoMan

      Of my high school matric class in the 90s, about 80% took the option for an overseas working holiday – most after university study, but also quite a few before.

      It was expected that most would return from that. It turns out that the majority of the people who took the overseas working holiday have now become permanent citizens of the respective countries that they visitied, and have stayed there.

      They have no intention of coming back.

    • Ubaba meet Baba

      Been checking options since you elected a criminal as our president. You allowing him to sell the country was the last straw.

    • Riaan

      Yes, but point is that it is an opportunity lost for ordinary South Africans to benefit. While the anc is selling the lie of economic transformation to the voters and keep scheming how they will distribute a shrinking pie between their voters, those that can make a real difference are over seas. Those who are professionals and would have employed millions in their business and practices.

      • Demisemi

        Yup

        But this flies over those heads in power.

        Zoom……..ah !

    • david

      We are on a facebook group for people leaving for the UK and the group has increased tenfold in the last 2 months.
      Me an my family will be leaving before the end of the month for bonnie Scotland

      • Jay

        How on earth do people still go to the UK? I though it was virtually impossible for South Africans impossible some company sponsors you.

        • Kaylin Lee

          ancestral visa mostly. or skilled workers visa (not that hard to get)

        • david

          People are digging into family history to see if they qualify for ancestral visa having a british grandparent and quite a few have got lucky like my family did.

  • Rodney Mfana Nxumalo

    Qondile

    • John Phoenix

      Straight outta Compton!

  • Me Me

    I have said it before, and I will say it again. It is European going home, let them leave in peace. They must also take their friends with in Coligny.

    • Literally Mario

      Your stinking attitude is the reason HNWIs are leaving. We should be throwing ourselves in the mud so that their boots don’t get dirty.

      These are the guys who build infrastructure, they are the ones who fill the bellies of every child and gogo on SASSA.

      Grow up and stop thinking of your own blind race hate.

      • bengine

        “We should be throwing ourselves in the mud so that their boots don’t get dirty.”
        HNWI worship is such a sad thing to behold ….

        • Literally Mario

          You know what is even worse than that?

          Sitting in a cold, dark shack without food. Without hope.

          • bengine

            Yes it is – trying to connect the dots here?
            We are a society that worships wealth. Excessive wealth is seen as a good thing – we encourage it, seek it, try to protect it without taking cognisance of role it plays in totally f’ing up society, economy etc. Rich people for the most part are selfish and self serving – that is one of the ingredients for getting to that position (not without exceptions – but generally the case). With people in these positions spending of money is only done to acquire more money – way beyond their needs – and they don’t (for the most part) care how it is done – explain to me how this is a good thing. Oh they create a few jobs on the side – a means to an end – they will create the minimum they have to to maximise profits. The solution is not in retaining HNWI – it is in growing entrepreneurs and small business, rapid skills transfer, education – new employment comes from the small business sector – not the big companies.. The less players we have in the market manipulating things for their own benefit the better.

          • Literally Mario

            We can go back and forth with the philosophical debate about wealth. But from an utilitarian perspective more people are suffering because HNWI are leaving.

            Image if Elon Musk stayed in SA, how much benefit he could have provided. He is just one of thousands who are leaving, taking their capital and knowledge with them.

            At the very least, one self person who can sustain themselves is better than a SASSA leech.

          • bengine

            Bad logic – we are not suffering because they are leaving – we are suffering because of the reasons that caused them to leave – there is a difference.

            Image if Elon Musk stayed in SA, how much benefit he could have provided.

            No I can’t imagine – that is non-statement – no way to predict an outcome. He moved because his personality type was drawn to opportunity elsewhere – we need to create reasons to pull people here. It is not the HNWI’s that define how we go forward – we define how we go forward and if we get it right we will attract HNWI – that is a bonus not the beginning and end of the world. I am getting so tired of all this HNWI worship – it is ridiculous.

          • Frik De Wet

            What your logic fails to notice, is that is HNWI leave the country, so does their entrepreneurial skills, and more importantly their capital.

            Without capital, there is no investment. There is no growth. Without growth we will go NOWHERE as a country. For us to alleviate poverty, uplift millions of poor – we need to be growing at 5%+. The only way for that to happen is capital and investment. And this is exactly what the HNWI’s have to offer. Usually, HNWI invest most of their capital in the country in which they reside.

            You may have a personal gripe with the wealthy, but that doesn’t change the reality. We live in a global world, where the rich can move to one of many destinations and setup shop anywhere.

            We want them here. We need them here. And we should be upset about the decline in numbers while they flee to other destinations.

          • bengine

            Lesson in logic. Table has four legs, chair has four legs therefore a chair is a table – this is called a Syllogism – and is extremely faulty logic. To imply that because a HWNI is wealthy it is because they have entrepreneurial skills is simply false. If you look at how many created their own wealth vs inherited it or simply lucked out – it does not support your theory.
            Secondly, they are not the only source entrepreneurial skills – we have a country full of them.
            Thirdly, investors look to where they can make money – we are at junk yet there is still major activity on the bond market. Point being investors are greedy – they don’t care how they make their money. If there is something worth investing in they will invest. So stating that HWNI’s take their capital with them is just plain ignorance – they did not keep it under their bed while living here – if you think HWNI’s money lives with them then you don’t have a clue what we are talking about.
            I suspect you were meaning to talk about disinvestment – that is a completely different action from an HWNI “emigrating”.
            Fourth, the venture capital market in this country has always been a complete joke – implying that the leaving of “capital” (actually the owners of capital) is going to make it worse is ridiculous. Most entrepreneurs in this country report lack of access to capital as one of the major inhibitors – so not sure where all this “capital investment” that is going to leave is going from.

            We don’t need them here and we don’t want them here (not to say we don’t want them) what I am saying is you don’t build your hopes on retention of HWNI’s – you focus on the problems that caused them to leave and you fix those – so that you don’t have to have them here – if they come back – that is a bonus – but we cannot run an economy where we go falling over ourselves for the rich.

          • Demisemi

            No.

            The simple fact is : “YOU CAN FOCUS ON THE PROBLEMS THAT CAUSED THEM TO LEAVE AND FIX THOSE” as much as you want.

            Without the Jobs/Gates type of skilled entrepreneur nurtured and nourished here in addition, nothing will happen.

          • Frik De Wet

            Really? How much did Mark Shuttleworth leave behind here when he left for Jersey? As I remember, he took every cent with him and the Reserve bank charged him a hefty 10% for doing so.

            That is exactly what tons of ‘averagely’ wealthy individuals are doing. Not billionaires, but ordinary millionaires. How are they going to support their lifestyle once they change their currency and its worth 14 times less?

            I have seen many wealthy close down and sell off family businesses, warehouses, distribution centers and take everything with them when they leave.

            You AGAIN point out lack of capital, and yet this is exactly my whole point. If you think we had little before, now we will have even less.

            You are unfortunately too biased and stubborn to see any of this.

            Good luck with your narrow minded view. Im out

          • bengine

            So you are saying all HWNI had their money in Standard Bank – no offshore diversification?

            My point about capital – is if you build something that will make money in this country capital will be as available as it was before. If it will make money it will attract investment – you don’t need HWNI’s for that – that is my point – crowd sourcing has demonstrated that you don’t need a billionaire to fund your project.

            “You are unfortunately too biased and stubborn to see any of this.”
            So no room in your world view to accept that a different view point from your own might have some validity.

            The whole drive of my comment is to challenge the view that HWNI’s are some sort of deity that must be pandered to at all costs. I am saying we need to build an economy that can stand on its own without such people – not sure where that is narrow minded.

          • Demisemi

            You’re splitting hairs here

            You kind of verge between accepting their value and denigrate them at the same time.

            Either way, without your Musks/Jobs etc or SOUND local economic principles, the country will suffer.

            Period.

          • bengine

            “You kind of verge between accepting their value and denigrate them at the same time.”
            How so ?

            “Either way, without your Musks/Jobs etc or SOUND local economic principles, the country will suffer.”
            You have lumped two disparate things together here. On the one hand you are talking about innovators – which we need – and sound economic principles – which we need – but then link these to specific individuals not sure what the point is. Are you saying we need the Musks and Jobs’ for their money or their innovation. If the latter I agree – it is the former I am challenging.

          • Demisemi

            Agreed

          • Risenga George Mnisi

            He might be on SASSA.. Who knows..??

          • Frik De Wet

            You sound very envious of the successful. Your perception is warped. The mega wealthy are so because they created a service or product that is in huge demand, and turned out successful. They can be self serving all they want, without offering a real game changing product in a free market, they would get nowhere.

            Do you have any idea how many jobs the likes of bill gates or elon musk have created? And I’m not talking about menial jobs, but highly skilled, highly paid professional jobs. TENS OF THOUSANDS.

            Do you have any idea how much tax the likes of Microsoft or Apple have contributed to the government over the decades? Billions and billions.

            “They only spend money to make more money?” That is called investing my friend, and everyone does it. You also do it with your pension plan, retirement plan and unit trust. You also want the best returns for your money, and so do they.

          • bengine

            One has to ask why this gets you so hot under the collar. You are not a HNWI and in all likelihood you have no chance of becoming one unless you win the lottery – which is the case with many in this category – the luck factor cannot be ignored. So why are you so interested in attacking a viewpoint that seeks to diminish the importance of HWNI’s. This is what interests me. You take the example of Musk and Gates and use that to extrapolate for the entire HWNI population – not very scientific – refuting by counter example. My comment provided for exceptions but was mainly targeted at this perception that HWNI’s should be revered and protected. In my experience and in the research I undertake I have as yet to find any conclusive evidence that HWNI’s provide any of the benefits they are purported to deliver – in fact in most cases I find the opposite. So what is it in this group of people that you see that makes you so ready to leap to their defense?

          • Frik De Wet

            See my second post further down. I explain why I am defending them. It only makes logical sense, and clearly you have a bias against these individuals, as if the only thing that can explain their success is immoral, greedy, unethical behavior. And that usually is the opinion held by the lazy or untalented to make themselves feel a whole lot better about their own misfortunes in life.

          • bengine

            Do you really need to up vote your own posts?

            Show me the logical sense – still have not seen it – stating it does not make it so.

            “clearly you have a bias against these individuals”
            Clearly you have totally failed to understand my posts. I am not attacking them I am saying we need to be free of them – we need to build our economy so it is not reliant on them – not sure how else to say this – they are a crutch – they don’t make us stronger they make us dependent.

            “And that usually is the opinion held by the lazy or untalented to make themselves feel a whole lot better about their own misfortunes in life”
            You know this because you have researched it or you just “opinioned” it. Assuming you are correct, then what I am reading is that you think this is the category I fall into – you have not met me you nothing about who I am or what I do – and in an attempt to prove a point you reach for an unsubstantiated claim and decide that this must be what I am about and then expect to be taken seriously?

          • Demisemi

            Agreed !!!!

          • Demisemi

            Yes.

            But you cannot disengage HNWI and entrepreneurs/small business owners

            They are inextricably linked.

            You are in effect throwing out the baby with the bath water

            Yes, so what if there are a few bad apples ??

            In the BIGGER picture, they are an integral part of ANY economy !

            Period.

          • bengine

            @Demisemi – I have to close this off I started something bigger than I intended and simply can’t answer all posts. You are one of the few on this forum I respect – you are more respectful than most and argue your points well. I think we are in basic agreement – I will admit that somewhere in all this I lost site of the actual definition of HNWI ($1M +) – my comments have been aimed more at those that exist above this bracket – above what salary and bonuses can earn.

          • Marc Eden

            Just another pity party. An idea. How about asking Zuma and his buddies to help you out. You voted for them.

          • Literally Mario

            You misread my comment, I replied to bengine. I said it’s worse sitting in a shack than it is tolerating HNWI.

        • Demisemi

          Not worship.

          But without them the economy collapses

          Fact.

          Bengine, arent you a socialist ?…im sure I have had comments with you a while ago on some forum…..?

          • bengine

            No it is not a fact. Show me the proof. This is what I am challenging. It is fact only in the minds of people like yourself.

            and no I am not a socialist – not in the true sense of the word. I believe that a society should be made up of opportunity and those in it can choose the extent to which they want to contribute. Those that chose to contribute more are entitled to more. What I am opposed to is the use of wealth to gain more wealth for the sake of wealth irrespective of the consequences. I believe it is possible for those that contribute to be wealthy but in a way that does not disadvantage others. An example – there is a concept that money has gravity – the more you have the easier it is to acquire more. Too much wealth in the hands of a single individual – in my mind creates problems. With such power a single person’s influence becomes too great and they can skew things in their favour and makes it harder for others to climb that ladder.

            Do you believe that Gates, Jobs, Page / Brin, Zuckerberg are the only capable people out there. I believe there are thousands but that the path to where they got to is difficult to navigate because whenever a money channel opens up there is someone with money looking to grab it – chasing wealth for wealth’s sake. I am interested to see what would happen if we could base our economy on a flatter pitch.

            Do you think that someone like George Soros is contributing positively to the world economy?

            Track back in time to when the HWNI gap was much less – how were our economies doing then – in the US this generation is the first that is going to be worse off than their parents since the depression. Is this directly related to the skewing of the wealth gap – I don’t know – but evidence seems to suggest there is a link.

          • Risenga George Mnisi

            Be a socialist .. U have my Vote…

          • bengine

            Nope don’t follow any specific ‘ism – might parallel some of these but not a subscriber to any rigid philosophy. Interested in solving the problem and looking for what works so will follow Bruce Lee’s advice “Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.”

        • Brian

          You really have your head in the sand. One of those who has produced nothing, no doubt. You employ nobody is my guess. All you want to do is snipe at successful people who drive the country forward and tell them you don’t need them while you sit in your dust bowl of emptiness. Now, I would much rather see you emigrate and keep the HNWI’s in SA who have the ability to create wealth.

          • bengine

            “One of those who has produced nothing, no doubt.”
            And you expect to be taken seriously. I have come across a few decent people on these threads who understand the art of discussion and the common point with them is they don’t jump to conclusions they ask questions to clarify points and consider viewpoints other than their own.

            “All you want to do is snipe at successful people who drive the country forward”

            Is that what I was doing – or is that what you created in your mind because when you read my post you did not like what I was saying so you immediately jump to the fear response. The point of my post is to de-emphasise the importance we place on the rich and the wealthy – I don’t believe it has merit and that to do so acts more against us than for us. It seems to be a common practice through the ages revere the rich and famous for their wealth and fame – rather than their actual attributes as human beings. Of course there are rich people who make a huge difference – that is not my point – I am challenging the perception that we have to base everything that happens on keeping rich people happy. I don’t see that as a sustainable objective and I do not agree that individuals being in control of excessive amount of resources is healthy for our global economy. Am I saying that we should all be equal and noone should be allowed to acquire wealth – no – but when we focus on wealth FOR THE SAKE of wealth and seek it no matter what the cost to those around us – that is where I have a problem.

            “and keep the HNWI’s in SA who have the ability to create wealth.”

            This is exactly the viewpoint I am challenging – you have no evidence to support this statement – it is made because that is what is being thrown around – but it is simply not the case. HWNI’s are not the only people who can create wealth – if anything they act as inhibitors for others to acquire wealth. They may be good at increasing their own – but that does not help our economy – we need to stimulate the creation of wealth on a more diverse level and HWNI’s do not do this.

          • Brian

            Firstly, you need to acknowledge that SA needs to retain capital in the country to enable investment in business and infrastructure. That is crucial. You are assuming that HNWI simply inherited their money and sit on it. That is true for very few but the vast majority created large businesses that employ thousands of people. It is much easier to create wealth when you have capital and in so doing you create jobs for those that are not entrepreneurial and you create taxes for the government. One would wish the government would spend it wisely and honestly but this is currently seldom the case. When you attack business and create excessive legislation you create an environment where it is difficult for them to operate. When they are threatened with nationalization and distribution of their assets it does not encourage them to grow in this country. They will move their money to the detriment of SA. They are here to make a profit but in order to do that they need to have social responsibility otherwise they may lose their customers. That is the thing with business, unless it is an essential monopoly (like the SOE Eskom), customers don’t have to support them. They have to produce something of value.

            We need to move away from this sense of entitlement (free houses, land, etc) and get an entrepreneurial spirit going in this country. Instead of attacking big business government should collude with them to support SME’s because that is potentially a huge driver of wealth and employment. This anti-business sentiment has to stop because the government creates nothing and without taxes cant exist. Nobody worships HNWI’s but to acknowledge that we need them shows a bit of maturity.

            As a last point, take a leaf out of your own book with comments such as “HNWI is such a sad thing to behold” not showing much in the way of discussion and maturity. Don’t you think that is a bit condescending?

          • bengine

            Actually I said “HNWI worship is such a sad thing to behold …” removing words from my quote skews the meaning and reflects badly on you. I stand by this comment – I have stated in many of my replies on this forum – that an economy that is built on a dependence of the ultra wealthy is a problem – that is not saying that I am denigrating them as a group or saying that they are not welcome in the economy. All I am saying is – that in this political / economic climate we need to think outside of the box. We have a government that is intent on taking us down the toilet (why – self interest pursuit of wealth) and there is little (politically) we can do about it. But a tree is not a fence, there is more than one way to skin a cat and I believe there is a road out of this mess – it is not easy but it is possible. This means coming up with a different way of doing things. Currently the world economy is in a shambles – nobody knows what’s what – we have instability and uncertainty all over the place – relying on classical economic theory or historical practices I don’t believe is going to work. We need to think outside of the box – and part of that is changing the way we think economies have to work. I am contending that the way out is to build an economy that does not have a dependence on ultra wealthy people. Currently we are our own worst enemy we are psyching our selves out here (to quote a sporting expression) – defeating ourselves with bad thinking. Change the way we think about wealth – deemphasise it without demonising it – encourage action where plowing wealth back into initiatives for reasons other than self interest interests – the incentive being that such action creates a healthier economy that is more sustainable and able to generate more wealth. Not sure if I am making sense – too many posts to respond to and not enough time.

          • Brian

            I think our positions are not that far from each other (except for your “expect to be taken seriously” and “reflects badly” jabs). My position is that we need to retain capital which is held by HNWI but it needs to be invested wisely. Large business should support the creation of SME’s because that is where the real jobs volume is. If you listen to someone like Clem Sunter who is a HNWI who came out of Anglo, a corporate, he advocates exactly this.

            Jobs will result in a reduction in crime. The government needs to allow business to thrive and not create excessive legislation making it difficult for entrepreneurs. At the moment we have a government squandering tax payers money and creating obstacles for business in the form of excessive legislation. They need to get out of the way (except for some consumer protection as there are some unscrupulous business people) and allow business to drive the economy.

            I think we are saying pretty much the same thing except I think it is crucial to retain wealth in the country for investment. It sounds like we are in the same place when it comes to business growing the economy. I am in favour of strong corporates because that is what allows us to compete internationally. Our huge corporates are minnows if you compare them to the top USA corporates so big business in SA is a matter of perspective. International competitiveness is what will earn us foreign income driving further wealth and investment which will create opportunities for SME’s

          • bengine

            “except for your “expect to be taken seriously” and “reflects badly” jabs”
            You misquoted me – not saying it was deliberate but if you leave out key words from a quote it changes the meaning.

            “My position is that we need to retain capital which is held by
            HNWI but it needs to be invested wisely”

            My position – we need to retain skills, build skills and free up the potential that exists in this country. I am not focused on retaining capital – not saying it is not important – just saying that when we get to focused on money, markets and all the factors that we are told are important we get distracted from what the real issues are.

            When we talk about HNWI’s there are two categories
            1. Those that earn a salary and bonuses that put them into the > $1M category
            2. Those that don’t work but have large sums of money that they use to generate larger sums of money.

            I will contend that category 1 contains valuable skills but are less likely to be a direct source of capital investment in new ventures – not talking about the markets or similar – talking new ideas.

            Category 2 is partitioned into those that make a living out of funding new business and those that use new ventures as one of many tools in a portfolio.

            If the exodus is primarily of category 1 then for me the loss would be the skills that are going rather than the capital.
            Category 2 has never really been forthcoming with cash in this country in the first place and I believe (I don’t know the exact numbers) have diversified portfolios that don’t lock their cash into a specific location – so “taking their capital” is probably not accurate.

            I also believe that if we create the right opportunities (ideas) which South Africa has shown we have a talent for – we will be able to source the funding that we need – might not be easy – but then it never was – not like those in Silicon Valley for example.

            Bottom line – we need to move focus away from being “dependent” on HNWI capital (if such a dependence actually exists or is just imagined – not really the point). As soon as we hang our hopes on HNWI’s and “their capital” and “their job creation potential” as if they are the only way out – we are sunk – we need a different model – one that is not dependent on HNWI – who by the way include a large portion of our Government and their cronies – would you include them in your “need HNWI and their capital” statement?

          • Brian

            There are not only two categories of HNWI’s. Look at someone like Raymond Ackermann who started Pick n Pay and ran the company for many years adding value and jobs for SA. What about Johann Rupert who has been so vilified recently? I don’t see any point in chasing these HNWI entrepreneurial people away.

            We need both skills and capital to be successful. It is not a choice of one or the other. What we don’t need is a destructive, elitist government with their “white monopoly capital” rhetoric and attempts to drive racism in their pursuit of votes.

            When I read your commentary you say we should not be dependent on HNWI but we will be able to source funding if we have the right ideas. Bottom line, we need that capital so why drive it a way in the first place. Anyway, we basically agree and we are arguing semantics now.

    • Skerminkel

      You will end up with only the Coligny-type. Them who cannot afford to go anywhere.

      • expatNederland

        Des te meer rede om ZA te bou.

        • Skerminkel

          100%. It is either win-win or lose-lose.

    • Frik De Wet

      This is the sad reality of the attitude of many in South Africa. They would look at a Elon Musk as an ‘enemy’ and a ‘white monopoly capital’ and would rather let him leave with all his talent, job creation and tax contribution than see him be successful here.

      As a 3rd world country, with a 0.3 % GDP growth rate and 40% unemployment. We should be BEGGING every single legitimate white, brown, yellow and black investor and businessmen to set up shop in South Africa. We should be rolling out the red carpet for these HNWI individuals because we desperately need investment if we are to ever grow.

      Unfortunately many here are too damn race obsessed and narrow minded to see it.

      • Selwyn

        Frik. No, playing the race card at every opportune moment. Yes, best new growth at the moment is from SMEs. But all the silly folks who despise those who have made it and become rich are actually a dis-service to SA.
        Remove Raymond Ackerman and PnP 20 to 30,000 job gone
        Remove Wiese and Shoprite Checkers 30 to 40 ,000 jobs gone
        Remove Motsepe, Saad, Oppenheimer Phosa, Rupert, Donald Gordon, and their businesses. You will go hungry ,you will be sick and industry will grind to snails pace. OR!!! Ask any one from top to bottom who works at any one of these companies if the boss leaves and take his business with them, WILL THEY BE HAPPY??

        • Selwyn

          Never mind all the scolarships, donations, educational and charitable work these men do or sponsor

        • Risenga George Mnisi

          We will have Selwyn and Sellooose.. and I bet it might pay better than PnP…

          • Selwyn

            RGM WTF are you on about?

          • Risenga George Mnisi

            I am F’en saying ..If those capitalist u just mentioned didn’t exist.. u might be lucky to open your own and enjoy the success they enjoying. …

          • Selwyn

            Some of ‘those capitalist’ and their staff were my clients for many years. They all got richer than planned .I retired at 56–not planned to be so soon but what the hell, hard work, honesty and paid off sooner than planned. By the way read the previous commentators, like Frik, Brian and Bengine above. it is quite a bit and then learn. you too may evolve a product or service and then one people will say: Ah ! there goes Mr Mnisi! what a wonderful, wealthy, philanthropist. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

      • Aristophanes

        It’s amazing how many countries to the North of us – currently I’m told, Mozambique is the main destination – are welcoming SA farmers with open arms to get their agricultural sector working again.

    • Fanandala

      They also take their money with them. The money that could have created jobs here will create jobs overseas instead. As for Coligny: do you know the truth??
      It started out that the boy was 12, but by now he is nearly 17. I would rather wait for the court case to be concluded before trying to judge the outcome.

      • bengine

        Don’t fall for the nonsense that HNWI create jobs – that fallacy needs to be squashed – it is perpetrated by those that want to protect their wealth from taxation.

        And what difference does the boy’s age make? Oh he was 17 – now it is ok that he is dead? My son is 17 – if someone touched him I would go bananas on them.

        • Demisemi

          Bengine wrote “it is perpetrated by those that want to protect their wealth from taxation.”

          Yup.

          Taxation is legalized form of Theft !

          ESPECIALLY AT THE HANDS OF THOSE LOCAL THUG SCUMBAGS IN GOVT

          • bengine

            Taxation of labour is illegal – taxation of capital is a different story – notice how tax has been structured. Labour taxed excessively – capital not as much – although recent budget changed that a bit.

      • Deal_with__it

        The parents didn’t even know he was gone for several days. But they swear he would not steal food. Or jump from a bakkie.

    • Ubaba meet Baba

      And all that attitude is going to get you is “me me sits in poverty”!

    • Guy

      Sigh… are you serious? Im pro ANC… well at least pro what they stood for initially but jesus that party has gone south. As for the DA and the semitic/land distribution issues thats another powder keg.

      The country has problems and no forseeable party seems able to want to solve it even the Da imho.

      As for time… 15 years ago we didnt have half the taxes we have today. Also the anc wants to stop you pulling out your pension and savings.
      I also want to run away asap. Love the country . But being madly in love with a whore does not a housewife make….

    • Van Mutuki

      Even black people are leaving.

      • Me Me

        Nigerians going home..

        • Demisemi

          Oh….

          I thought all ‘locals’ are welcome…as long as they ‘African’ ??

          Mmm……if even the Nigerians are leaving, then you know things are bad !

          Ha ha…..the ANC is so corrupt they scare even the Nigerians !

        • david

          Plenty of south africans looking to leave to, two interns,where I worked were asking about how they could get over.

    • Bob

      Your tone and racist attitude is one of the prime movers behind the emmigration – grow up!

    • John

      Immature comment. To the people saying “good riddance, go, bugger off to Europe” – they have no idea what would happen to the country and economy when or if the middle and upper class leave a country. If you are too young to remember or visit Lorenco Marques, go and ask someone that is old enough what it was like before the Portuguese fled. It was like Monaco. The Portuguese fled, and they changed the name to Maputo….and go and see for yourself how it has changed. If you think that the Europeans leaving SA will mean that you will automatically inherit their wealth, think again. The country will go down faster than the titanic, with mass poverty and unemployment….which will encourage even higher crime rates.

    • Demisemi

      Yes.

      They did it in the rest of Africa and all went back home.

      Look how that turned out…….Africa is the official begging bowl of the world….all those kids with flies in their noses.

      Lekker hey ?

    • Aristophanes

      Well at least they’ll make damn sure that racists like you won’t get a look in there. That makes me feel very happy.

    • david

      Got bad news for you, those of us leaving are less likely to be of the racist variety that you refer to.
      They are less likely to leave due to been unable or unwilling to do so.

    • Afripression

      They must also thake all the black murderers with

  • expatNederland

    Why every1 wanna emigrate to the EU / English speaking country is beyond me.
    There are LOTSA safe, developed / countries. Thailand. Suriname. U need to attend languagel lessons 2x per week for 6 months in order to get fluent. Thats a common courtesey for living there.

    The EU is closer than you think. Mayotte and Reunion are French departments. Uses the €Euro. Both islands situated next to Madagascar. The french dont speak English.

    And.. Russia!!! VERY MUCH investor friendly. Except for Russian machomale very extremly safe, developed country. Nobody speaks English tough.
    Moscow is just one of MANY big cities.. Russia is ENORMOUS big.
    Afrikaans will get you friends there 😛

    • Frik De Wet

      Because its much more than just a language barrier. The lifestyle, mannerisms, culture and common practices are vastly different in the countries you mentioned vs an English speaking western country.

      You could take all the language classes in the world, become fluent, but you will never quite fit in or feel at home.

      • expatNederland

        Ek woon al 20 jaar in die EU. Praat op my werk, tuis Nederkaans. Its important to ‘integrate’. Simple things here, which are taken VERY seriously: (1) be EXACTLY on time for appointments, (2) dont judge other ppl race/sexual preferences or societies, (3) Positive achievements builds society, (4) dont steal, (5) dont go stad “bakhandje” for a government social welfare grant, and most IMPORTANT of all (6) dont be a burden to society.

        Those are the unwritten rules here.

        In other words. Malema-supporters wont survive ONE day here.

        • Marc Eden

          or any anc supporter

        • KingPush

          How did you survive rule (2) judging by your racist tone?
          “Malema Supporters” nogal lol
          Jy sal nooit verander nie

    • Nofearorfavor

      Quite a number have already gone and settled there…

      • expatNederland

        machmo male.. just watch “Stop a Douchebag” on Youtube.. Thats the average russian 😛 😛

    • zunai andre

      Ohh well,Kim Jon wat wat and Afrikaans?

  • Riaan

    Just a question; Can the kids put their money together and ask their parents to get citizenship in Malta and then become citizens automatically?

  • Smartmoney

    Anyone with half a noggin can see whats happening … the anc have sold out to the highest bidder, financially raping us while threatening to steal our homes and enslave our children in debt.

    There are some fantastic alternatives out there.

    Get the FOOK out!

    • victory

      Good luck

    • Qon

      Please can you give some examples of the fantastic alternatives? Would like to explore different options.

  • domsie

    Why the hell is this news? Is this a way to create a herd mentality so that everyone ups and leaves? Not going to happen.

    I thought Businesstech was different where sensation & accurate reporting are worlds apart. Apparently not. A little disappointed to be honest…..

  • bengine

    “South Africans really are leaving the country”

    … those aren’t South Africans. True saffers have a history of sticking things out – those that run away are not saffers.

    • Speed

      So the Rhodesians/ Zimbabweans that left Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe were not true Rhodesians/ Zimbabweans?

      • bengine

        Nope. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can choose to move – that is your choice but if you do you can’t claim to still be part of the same group that chose to stay. If enough chose to stay and really put effort into making a difference instead of preaching from the sidelines and bitching about how much their lifestyle is being affected we might be able to make a difference. I have no problem if people decide to move – they are free to do as they wish – what irks me is when they move and then still make some claim as to be South African. My forefathers came here (several hundred years back) under terrible conditions – they were not colonialists seeking to profit by exploiting the resources of a less developed country – they were seeking a better life than the one they had in Europe. They did not arrive here and start profiting off the land – they struggled, they fought they went through hardship I can only imagine to try and make a better life for their families. Personally I am not about to disrespect those efforts and turn tail for greener pastures without putting in at least as much effort as they did. But that is just me.

        • domsie

          The 1st valid comment. Thank you.

        • Henrè

          If more people leave, they will get less taxes. They will then put up the taxes because they need more money and so on and so on. I have kids to worry about, and therefore I will consider moving. But that does not make me “fake saffer”.

          I love this country and its people but I love live, my kids more. I beed to make money to eat and afford a house, If I get taxed 50% or 75% because all the other tax payers left, then I will die of hunger, if I don’t get robbed and killed by the other people without money.

          • Nicholas Alan Groves

            Less and less taxes….did you take into consideration the penalization of withdrawing your retirement fund to support a move overseas? Just asking.

          • Jason Palmer

            I think he did, Nicholas. Moving overseas is not cheap. Bloody expensive in fact. To be fair though, there are no penalties for cashing in your RA or Pension funds early if you officially financially emigrate through SARS and the SARB. There is of course tax, but those portfolios are usually taxed when you withdraw them at retirement anyway. So the only difference, in this specific case, is that depending on the person’s age, SARS will only get a fixed percentage of a smaller lump sum (non-matured policy) on emigration now versus a fixed percentage of a much larger lump sum later on at retirement age.

            For the average middle aged and middle class (and higher) South African who is even vaguely financially savvy and with a decent retirement plan in place (i.e. the exact same group considering emigration), that difference in potential revenue for SARS is huge when multiplied by thousands or tens of thousands of people now considering such a move. Not to mention that tax rates on retirement schemes are also bracketed, so someone emigrating with a couple hundred thousand bucks now gets taxed at a lower rate than that same someone retiring with a couple million later. It doesn’t take a financial genius to figure out that a smaller percentage cut on a smaller number now versus a larger cut on a much larger number later is not good for ol’ Mr. Taxman.

            Then there is the simple fact this same multitude will be paying no more property rates and taxes, no more income tax, no more customs and excise taxes on those online purchases oversees, no more capital gains tax, no more VAT on nearly every cent they spend, no more road taxes, no more vehicle taxes, no more licensing fees, no more petrol tax, and not another cent in the South African economic market place (outside of the occasional holiday or return visit), nothing, nada, zilch, not a jot and not blue bean to SARS for the coming years and decades. That’s tens of thousands of Rands (hundreds of thousands for some) per person, per year! So in effect, the government is very much standing to lose big if more and more Saffers decide to officially emigrate in the coming years.

          • bengine

            Henre, I hear you – let me clarify the point. There are people in this country who live here but they have one foot in Europe, they benefit from what we have to offer and call themselves South Africans until things get a bit tough and then they up and leave. If you have had an experience where your safety has been threatened and you feel that to keep your family safe you have to move – there are still options in SA, If you decide to move because your lifestyle is being affected or you feel like you might be expected to have to put some effort into solving the issues or that your comfort levels might be effected – then that is where I get hot under the collar.

            I think your comment about taxes is a bit simplistic. The idea here is to create a working economy that can generate the tax revenue we need. To make the mistake of thinking this lies only with the white population – a small percentage of which is emigrating – is in my view not the right call. The problems we face are tough but they are solvable providing enough people get behind them – apathy is our worst enemy. There are cynics out there who say it can’t be done – but those that say things are impossible should stop getting in the way of those doing it.

          • Rodney Trueman

            Well said. “The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”. By leaving we are giving up. Imagine we gave up on apartheid and said “forget it…we can’t overthrow this government, lets just leave our country and move away” Besides the fact that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Europe is being plagued by terrorist attacks. USA has Trump. You have immigrants rolling in from everywhere. Just not worth it, unless you can afford to buy your own island. Invest in SA, not just with your money, but with your time and effort. Stop waiting around for someone else to fix the problem.

        • Chobit

          So if I go work in another country (because I can’t get a job because of my skin colour, or that my family was put in danger) I can’t claim to be South African because I’ve given up on the struggle? The problem is we can’t just claim to be a different nationality or have no nationality. I believe people can still go work overseas and be proud South Africans.. if fact I’ve met many! They still love their country but because of reasons they need money and are working overseas.

          • bengine

            Depends on what your long term objectives are. If you read my comments here I am reacting to people (and I know a few) who are basically self centred. They have wealth – couldn’t really care what happens to anyone around them as long as their comfort zone is not encroached on but whenever something positive about the country happens suddenly they are South Africans sharing in the experience. When the going gets tough they pack off to somewhere else. That is who I was targeting.

            In my view you have to be South African in more than name only.

        • Demisemi

          Bengine, your sentiments are admirable.

          Yes, being brave and staying with the band as they played on the sinking Titanic was admirable

          Or, you could have been one of the Jews around the time of KristallNacht who also stayed to make a difference

          Or one of those Zim farmers who also stayed to make a difference.

          And just because your [ and mine ] forefathers came here and worked their asses off, goes for most generations of that time anyway, who all forged new territory under difficult conditions around the globe

          In closing, never have allegiance to ANY country – they always have a government who rules over it.

          And we all know what governments are like.

          End of story.

          • bengine

            have you had a look at the governments in the US and Europe lately.

            I hear your points – but there are people here who can’t emigrate – who’s lives will become significantly worse if those who can make a difference leave. I work in a community of people – not rich people – middle class working moms and dads – who continually give back despite the cost to themselves. You cannot know the reward of being among such people and the (grateful) people they work with and then talk about leaving.

            I cannot leave – I can make a difference – it will be a very small difference but it will be a difference. Here is something to think about. How come we all do things we know has negative effects (driving our car when we could walk to quote a mundane example) and use the excuse that our small contribution has no effect – we still do it when subconsciously we know that all these little transgressions when summed together make for a big one.
            Yet, when it comes to doing positive things we don’t even try because our thought process is – “we can’t make a difference so why bother” – we don’t let the accumulative power of small positives have the same effect that we know the accumulative power of small negatives have.

            I am not naive about what is going on or how things are likely to play out – but I have hope and although personally my life is stressed all to hell – I will continue to try to add my little bit to the pile in the hope that others will do the same and slowly we can turn things around. It is not impossible – it just takes a simple mind shift in enough people to create the tipping point.

            So, I will endure the mudslinging and derogatory comments in forums here and elsewhere because maybe I can reach just one person – which might just be the difference.

    • Marc Eden

      What an astonishingly stupid comment. Exactly what is a true saffer. You live based on the quality of life for you and your family.

      • bengine

        Ditto.

      • The_Splurge

        No to mention a saffer is a South African living in the UK.

    • The_Splurge

      No kids eh?….. Thought so.

    • Aristophanes

      Disagree. It’s normally those that can’t leave that say that. Mind you the bitter einders that ‘ran off’ to Argentina might disagree as well.

      • bengine

        Probably – I know many who can (me included) but won’t. I am sure if you read between the lines you will see what my true motivation is here.

    • david

      I am leaving to become Scottish you can keep SA.

      • bengine

        No problem – enjoy the highlands, whiskey and if you see nessie give her my regards.

        • david

          Will do.

          • OnceBitten2

            LOL, at least Nessie won’t hijack you!

    • victory

      Stop worrying about few foreigners leaving our country they were here to practice racism

    • YouDontEvenKnowMe

      That’s rather cute

    • Samuel Clemens

      You’re right tiger. I’m a proud New Zealander now.

  • nicc777

    With local property under constant threat, this is not all that surprising. Sell here and invest somewhere with better guarantees. It’s a no-brainer. What the cANCer seems to ignore is the fact that the wealth that they are after is leaving the country and out of their reach. It’s a “cutting your nose to spite your face” type scenario.

  • Led

    At a cost of $100,000 I won’t be leaving here soon.

  • ” as little as US$100,000″
    I can’t even pay off my R100 000 debt let alone that

    • Xonix

      I’m struggling to pay my R7k credit card debt nevermind R100k

      • zunai andre

        I don’t know about you dear,but nahh,just a visit to Robben Island still needs me 2months savings one Outcast talk about#aslittleas $100k,if if he gime dat,walaah I am King in RSA.

      • IceQ

        At the current R13.55 to the USD it would be R1 354 780.00. I do not have that kind of money… Even if I sell everything I own I will not even get close to it…

    • victory

      U will remain here

    • Kleinfontein

      maybe try lotto. punda. pusha. play!

      • zunai andre

        The quickest way to become avarage Poor is through lotto

      • IAmThePope

        Tatta machance, tatta mamillions

    • Jibbers Crabst

      Yeah same, home loan is a bitch

    • zunai andre

      Lol,Sir Nico,I looked at the amount and sink Nahh,Mann die bra maybe misspelled$10000,You.I will pass and keep waving bullet in Jozi.

    • Exactly why people are leaving

  • expatNederland

    Most EU countries have compulsary formalized classroom ‘integration’ which are taken VERY seriously completed with a diploma. it teaches language, customs, human dignity, and is very much practical orientated towards everyday life (how to buy a trainticket, why & how to open a bank account, why & how to write a job letter etc etc). The course is geared towards teach one WHY and HOW an indvidual can contribute to the GREATER good of EVERYONE in society.
    Upon completetion it gives right to citizenship, higher education, and eventual social welfare grants.

    Thats EXACTLY where the ANC-regime failed past 25 years. We should’ve learnt about about our cultural differences, and allow each culture to develop and maintain its identity without breaking constituional rights. As recommended by the constitution.

    As we say here: “Nederland is niet te klein om GROOTS te zijn”.
    [Netherlands: a tiny country of achievements]

  • Marc Eden

    Reading some of the comments here really confuse me. People miss South Africa because of a boerie roll the sunshine or beautiful beaches. Am i missing something here. South Africa is a beautiful country, there are many beautiful countries that have amazing beaches and believe it or not sunshine and yes, a huge choice of food other than boerie rolls. As much as any person may want to hope that things will get better, the signs are so obvious. Its amazing how many people get so stuck in there comfort zones.

    • Samuel Clemens

      You can buy or make a boerie roll anywhere.

  • Darrillio

    I am positive that SA will survive. The world has been saying that the end of SA is in sight – since the early sixties – and we are still here! I believe that when the current grubby Zuma leaves office and the ANC catch a wake-up – we will be fine.

    • keithbe

      Agreed…Wait till North Korea nukes the US and Europe 😉

    • Jibbers Crabst

      And hope springs eternal =)

    • Nofearorfavor

      I believe you have a point because I feel that there’s a general awakening throughout the world of how we’ve all been used and abused by the global ,01%– the R&R zio mafia and as more and more foreign governments are routing out all forms of corruption, or face revolt on their hands, so will our government have to follow suit. No country is an island and having healthy domestic and export profiles mean we have to built up and strengthen our economy, take SA up to the notch,where our goods are sought after globally.

      I think the ANC had a helluva skrik and know they have one last chance to make a complete turnaround– or they’re history. Strong political competition will drive them, as also a nation which is increasingly politically aware, will keep them transparent and on their toes. The career politicians, the arrogant and self serving– it is dawning on the ANC, that these greedy and corrupt cretins have to go.

      So agree with you– there is hope for us as a nation– Also due to SA’s geographic location and especially due to our first world infrastructure–we are ideally placed strategically to benefit greatly from our proximity to Antarctica and all that is eventuating there. SA is an extremely well endowed country– as can be seen that even though we’ve been robbed blind– we’re still not bankrupt, even though we owe the IMF and WB gazillions and our economy is in trouble. If the ANC does not realise it, the people of SA will bring it home to them– because they know full well, we’ve had enough across the board. Maybe good thing is that the bad happening now, has given us a wake up and serving to unite us for the benefit of all? What you think?

    • expatNederland

      South Africa has GREAT constitution.. it contains EVERYTHING to make Suid-Afrika GREAT.. However, those in “power” needs to execute on it.

      READ the constitution.. English | SePedi | isiZulu version –> google.

      below are the most wonderful.. greatest things.. if we can achieve this..

      **AANHEF**
      Daarom neem ons, deur ons vryverkose verteenwoordigers, hierdie Grondwet aan as die hoogste reg van die Republiek ten einde –
      * Die verdeeldheid van die verlede te heel en ʼn samelewing gegrond op demokratiese waardes, maatskaplike geregtigheid en basiese menseregte te skep;

      * Die grondslag te lê vir ʼn demokratiese en oop samelewing waarin regering gegrondves is op die wil van die bevolking en elke burger gelyk deur die reg beskerm word;

      *Die lewensgehalte van alle burgers te verhoog en die potensiaal van elke mens te ontsluit; en

      * ʼn Verenigde en demokratiese Suid-Afrika te bou wat sy regmatige plek as ʼn soewereine staat in die gemeenskap van nasies kan inneem.

  • Profitfromdoom

    Zuma takes a dump and suddenly everyone wants out? Come Saffas, its just a game to keep the ZAR from not getting too strong. Let the monkeys play.

  • Victor van Heerden

    I have three sons. One going Aus. Another to Canada. The third to Croatia. I’m going to Remainhere Zuma has killed off the Rand.

  • RealParanoidAndroid

    Money money money! I just cant get enough.

  • System Saviour

    Where are the not-so-wealthy South Africans going?- Let’s discuss options. 😉

    • IAmThePope

      Home – Work – Home ?

  • Wynand Deyzel

    I’ve left…now they want to tax my expatriate income, but in SA I was without a job for 3 months and they wanted to offer me unemployment of R5,000.00 a month, plus I’m not wanted as an employee, because I’m white and middle aged.. Go figure!

  • Brian

    All we are going to be left with in SA is the takers who want a free house and free land. The producers and money are voting with their feet which leaves SA with nobody creating wealth. That means a whole lot less for everybody due to ANC policies and Zupta. When will they wake up and notice the destruction of SA?

  • Hennie

    If I had money I will invest it overseas but I will not leave the country. Imagine if I do not see SA as a safe haven for my money how does foreigners feel. And those foreigners who have invested in SA are probably withdrawing their money and investing it somewhere else. The leaders of SA are stupid with numba one taking the top spot.

    • Jibbers Crabst

      So you won’t trust RSA with your money, but you’ll trust it with your life. Ah, ok then, as you were, lol.

      • Hennie

        I’m too old to go anywhere. They’ll never accept me.

  • Leonard

    I left SA back in 1999 , I joined the British Army and I served over 13 years and I travelled around the world .. It’s sad to see what’s happening to what once was a good country to live in . Instead greed and selfishness has taken over … I wouldn’t blame anyone for leaving ,, of the country is failing to look after and serve its citizens why should they stay on a sinking ship .

  • Jandre Kroeze

    When the blacks and ANC dont learn and do stupid things, they deserve to rot in their own excrement and destroyed ruins. When a country is run by crooks the country turns into a gangster paradise for crimminals. Stuff this new south africa and rainbow bovine excrement. The former was much better anyway.

  • victory

    Those ppl who are leaving are they S African or what

    • Jibbers Crabst

      Yeah they are, as they were born here, but they’re only South according to the Government, because Whites can’t be Africans.

  • *waves from the USA*

  • Lynda

    My daughter left the country 6 years ago because she married an American. She still misses home desperately, but after coming back with a view to staying 3 years ago she’s gone back for good and has her green card. I can leave. I choose not to. I’m 4th generation born South African and I belong here!

    • Nofearorfavor

      Lynda– I cannot even trace my forebears — only know, like most, they originated in the Cape– neither am I interested in where I come from, because I know– I am South African to the bone! I have travelled overseas many times to many places– 3 months in the States– offered a lucrative business opportunity there — but not Europe, UK, the Pacific Rim and even the most delectable islands– none can replace this Southern most tip of Africa I love– the country and the people– the enigma of South Africa! —

      Despite the ongoing racial spats– the tensions, our government’s neglect at uniting us– SA’s average people of all races, are inherently good people, genuine people and very patient people!– Yes, racism persists, but it is improving, but our government could long since have almost eradicated this vicious and cancerous evil, by getting us to work together on national projects– On one goal, which will return our pride as a nation and heal the horrific hurts of the past.

      Why is our government failing us on this most critical issue??– that is by not uniting us?

      For sure, as god made little apples, if the ANC had made this a mission, have made it a mission to truly serve SA– it would have ever remained the strongest– virtually the only political party in SA– embraced and respected by all races, creeds and cultures– a good and caring of ALL its peoples government! — The whole lot of us living in harmony and working together like Trojans building our country– a country with a strong and vibrant economy and for sure a choice destination for tourists from all over the world– is what we would have been today! Guaranteed!!

      But our government threw away its skilled white capital from the get go–! At the least, if whites had been called upon to help– the understanding, the acceptance across races, would have matured us, while we concentrated on helping each other– on one common goal– how different SA would have been today. What;s more we would have beaten the global cabal at their own game!– They divide and rule and make weak– we would have united and made our own national rules, making us strong and independent, in charge of our destiny!

      The ordinary people of SA cannot be blamed, the blame lies fair and square– sorry to say– with a government who was bent on keeping us separated, on punishing ordinary whites for the loathsome deeds of the global imperialist cabal, which not only heisted Africa, but to this day heists most countries all over the world. Look at what is gripping the EU? Will not even go there– but can tell you, it is the same global cabal.

  • Nofearorfavor

    SA as a country, is one of the greatest in the world– the climate is temperate and a safer geological location than most– yes we need to urgently counter an ever worsening drought, but that can achieved by a committed and dedicated to the country and people government. Do not tell me that expertise is not available to restructure education, countrywide skills training achieved, concurrently with standard of life improvement projects nationally. The whole bloody nation can be be involved in such a national goal. Aw, I’ve written letters, have tried to wake people up — sure thousands of us have! — But there is never a reply– only received a read receipt once. It is not for kudos we all put in these ongoing mega efforts– but because we love our country and we want it to move ahead and become an equal society– a country in the position to afford opportunities and a reasonable future for all.

    Is that not what any common sense South African would desire for his/her fellows and his/her country? What is wrong with the ANC that they cannot differentiate between most local whites and the global imperialist cabal– which by the way consist of all colours!– which hijacked SA in 1994 — as it has since forever hijacked and continues hijacking most countries globally!!??? Jeez man, get a life — most white South Africans are committed to SA– don’t want to leave our country– because it is the only country we have–! Time our government catches a wake up and unites us– make us work together for ONE worthy goal! — Building our country to be the best she can be — and believe you me, that means the sky is the limit!

  • 0xbeef

    South Africans leaving ? were they ever South African to begin with?. Bunch of moaning girls util they meet their match over there, and run back home, making excuses saying things like they miss the weather (like a dog with its tail between its legs)

    businesstech your tone for a while, is exactly one of the reasons why nobody wants to do business with out country, its like MyBB spreading dirty propaganda and spearding nothing but hate and negativity ALL the time with your indirect emphasis on Black People.

    • Nofearorfavor

      Agree when the going gets tough– the tough gets going– does not run away, but sticks around and sorts out the problems! We have brains, we have tongues and we can Indaba and debate about all the many issues we face, until we find consensus on what works for us all — Where there is a will there is ALWAYS a way! Problems all have solutions! Only commitment is needed to find the solutions and then following through by implementing them.

    • Samuel Clemens

      Haha. Sure. I left 6.5 years ago, now in NZ as a Kiwi citizen, (but writing from Orlando, Florida, on conference here). You have no idea, pellie.

  • Skoppienaai Sewinduit

    I see comments implying that people who leave are ‘Un-south-african’,and I laugh. If being truly south African means having to stay out of some misplaced loyalty, despite high crime, increasing discrimination against whites and a tanking economy, you can have it. I got the opportunity to start over elsewhere,and grabbed it with both hands. And my advice to anyone who can, is to do the same. Yes, you miss your friends and family, yes it’s difficult to adjust to different culture, but completely worth it. I’m happy, safe, and have first world problems to deal with. If I’m unpatriotic for choosing that for myself, so be it. Labelling people who want a better life away from the mess that is RSA, is petty, and in some cases, just a case of jealousy,and sour grapes at not having that opportunity.

  • OnceBitten2

    I never wanted to leave RSA, but things have changed, I call it my “boiling a frog in the pot theory”. Place a frog in a pot of cold water and place the pot on the stove, turn the heat up and the frog will adjust and eventually die. Now place a pot of boiling water on a stove and throw the frog in, it will leap out and save itself. Leave it at that.

  • Guest

    I have family living in California in the US whose also American citizens who left SA before 1994. I was urged to join them but was never at ease by the idea and subsequently declined. Today even though at times things aren’t on the bright side over here I know I made the right decision to stay. I have to add that I don’t have any children which obviously might’ve swayed me to move to America at the time if I had. I’ve never been affected as a white male by AA or BEE and although many whites were, I believe there’s always a way to an alternative more positive outcome if u put your mind to it. Living in the WC obviously makes it easier as there is more opportunities and race relations are clearly the best in the country compared to NW, FS and Gauteng.

  • IAmThePope

    $100 000? Guess I’l be sticking around then

  • Einstein

    Wondering where all those leaving got so much money from to be able to leave the country and then still have enough to have a comfortable living abroad.

  • fourijm

    Not financially possible for most whites in SA.

  • muzukuru

    Sounds like a marketing article looking to generate interest

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